Double Dragon Artist Says Double Dragon Revive Is "Cheap" And "Shows No Respect" To The Series

Hrmm I don't really like the attitude on show, although I understand the general sentiment. Having a pop at the new developers because they are young and "haven't played the original games" is just plain rude - comes across as sour grapes. Plus the new team could be huge fans of the arcade game... there's no way they know this?!

Fair enough to criticise the direction of the game... but don't get personal on it.

As an aside, I've got Double Dragon for both the Gameboy and the Atari Lynx lined up to play at some point next year - instead of this...!

@nocdaes While I agree that the tone is a bit "on the edge" I wholeheartedly understand the frustration. It's the same with that "Lord of the Rings" garbage on Amazon. If I take an established franchse I better be prepared to incorporate and understand it's legacy. Otherwise just name it something else. No? Oh you want the publicity an established brand provides? Fine, then you need to provide the expected feel and quality. It's that simple.

If you don't want to sell Big Macs in your McDonalds, you might as well not take the franchise and sell whatever you like, call it something differently and suffer from "no one knows who you are".

EDIT: I watched the trailer AFTER I wrote my comment and I have to admit that the game LOOKS (from the little we can grasp) just like you would expect from a modern beat'em up called Double Dragon. I don't think there was any ill-intent on the side of the dev team when making this. It's seems like a "natural progression". Still I have no idea how the game feels, of course, but I wonder if it was any different if they made it pixel-arty and call it "neo retro". Worked great for reviving Turtles beat'em ups. I'd love to know what the OG devs think about the Double Dragon Gaiden thing that I quite enjoyed, even though it did NOT feel like Double Dragon at all, which in my book peaked with Super Double Dragon.

Sorry for long text. Kudos if you suffered through it all.

I guess it's fair to say he has the right to be critical of someone updating his work, but he also worked on the rather terrible Double Dragon IV, so he's not exactly blameless for bad Double Dragon games.

Really does come across poorly, given that from the sound of it, he has nothing to base all this on besides a short trailer that doesn't give us much of an idea what the gameplay is really like.
This is basically just another "Old Man Yells at Cloud", rather than anything anyone should be paying any attention to.
Now, I don't personally like the look of the game- it really threw out the 80's action movie aesthetic that set Double Dragon apart from the Kunio series, but I'd be willing to bet the gameplay will be solid enough.

Regardless what you think of the game, this guy’s attitude about it kind of sucks.

If he's this mean to Revive, I wonder what his opinions of Gaiden, River City Girls, and especially "4" would be.

Always felt Double Dragon was a fun game, but vastly overrated. Kinda glad Revival is stepping away from its roots, tbh!

Well I'm glad he liked Double Dragon V then. 😆

Double Dragon IV is not terrible, it’s exactly how another sequel for the series would of looked like if released on the famicom/ nes in 1994ish. Its authentic and true to the series.

Not sure exactly what the backstory is on this, but this seems like a huge overreaction. As someone mentioned above, seems very personal and comes across rude.

I really enjoyed Gaiden and was on top of the leaderboard earlier this year, but before I bought it I was pretty skeptical. Let’s see what this game is…still very early to tell how it will play and feel.

I also just finally played and beat IV last fall, and I enjoyed it and found it pretty replayable, but it’s a different beast altogether.

They all have pros and cons…except Double Dragon Advance. That game rocks and for me is pretty much the perfect DD game. It’s like the definitive version of the arcade game with performance fixes, more levels, and a much better move set. Loved it and the weapons NEVER disappear even if knocked out of your hands. You can carry one throughout a level if you want.

I’m excited to see more of Revive. Probably going to give it a try next year.

@Zeebor15 someone above said he worked on IV lol. I liked it but I understand others don’t / won’t.

He talks like he doesn't want the series to evolve. Nobody wants to play Double Dragon in pixeled form forever. In hindsight the series needs to evolve or it gets stale and falls under. The only guilty pleasure of this game is that it's not coming to the Nintendo Switch, a platform known for retro re-releases since no one from the PlayStation and Xbox platforms would ever buy or play these kind of games.

@Blast16 Double Dragon IV's issues was that it had no qol features otherwise people wouldn't be so harsh on it. The game plays just like the NES games in that if you get a Game Over, you start back from the very beginning losing your entire progress. There's no quick save, no rewind or fast forward options, no filter options, no save states, no cheat codes or bonuses for extra lives, and no new moves or levels to play except the main arcade mode. It's no surprise the newer audience didn't like it unlike Super Double Dragon which they do love it.

Yikes, don't hold back mate.

I think the comments should be welcomed to be honest.

The key ones for me:

“Double Dragon is a game with a strong punch and a unique, distinctive feel, but this game has none of that.“

“The fact is that not a single person in the Technos team recognises this as a Double Dragon game.”

So he’s making comments based on the core gameplay of the original games, and believes this new game is not faithful to those.

This is a problem for me. If a new release is supposed to be a new entry in the series it should, IMO, make an effort to focus on this. There’s plenty of opportunity to take the original core gameplay mechanics and expand on them, or take them in new directions. But to bin that off entirely - the game becomes something else in a Double Dragon skin.

Also - I feel we need to move past criticising people for giving an honest opinion. It’s highlighted here in particular as the opinion is from someone who was deeply involved in the history of the series. You may not agree with what he’s saying - and that’s fine - but people should be encouraged to speak out with their opinions.

This new “Double Dragon” game may prove to be a great game in the genre. And that’s great. But, based on the comments above, would it really be a great Double Dragon game?

What an a**hole...

The original game, wasn't really all that great.
The hit detection and controls was pretty janky, and the insane amount of slowdowns, especially in the later stages, are so bad, it becomes unplayable to me, especially when we played two players. It's almost like they didn't expect gamers to get further than stage 2, so they didn't bother to optimize the game.

It was groundbreaking, in the way it created the beat em up genre, we still enjoy today. But other than that, and the great graphics and soundtrack, it always was pretty mediocre, as a game. I had more fun with Renegade.

The new game looks fun, and I had a good time with Gaiden as well.
But my favorite, will always be Double Dragon 2, for the NES.

@Serpenterror Yeah, the QoL features in DD IV definitely make it a no go for many. I admit I played the game on release several years ago, and quickly turned it off in disgust as it just kind of felt cheap and shallow. I didn’t replay until last year and it was fine. Moves were much easier to pull off than in the old games and there were more of them.

I see why this game (IV) in the series may not attract newcomers, but does every game need comprehensive QoL? That’s no dig, just an honest question. I don’t think so, but it’s nice if it’s there and optional. I certainly don’t expect it with each new game and think of that stuff as luxury.

One thing to be noted about DD IV that I found really helped me enjoy my play was when you game over, you can choose to start on any of the levels including the one you died on, and when you reboot the game, you have built in level select. I didn’t game over until late game, but that was super nice as an enticement to keep playing and even just replay an earlier level you liked.

Edit: maybe the level select following game over in DD IV was added after the game launched?

@Serpenterror missed this in last comment but new audiences like Super DD? That surprises me because the game is super sluggish and feels worse to play to me than IV. I have the SNES cart too and recently tried a play through because I remember liking it so much back in the day. Was reeeally rough lol. I didn’t make it all the way through… I’m curious what the draw is in comparison to other entries.

I think the new game looks a little generic, but as someone who played the original Double Dragon, I don't honestly have a whole lot of nostalgia for it. It was quickly surpassed by Final Fight and Streets of Rage in both presentation and gameplay.

Maybe it is sad that no one from Technos cares for it, but it's an IP at this point, not a single game or even several games. It's not like Double Dragon Neon didn't play with the series a lot too.

Wow, a Japanese dude being rude. That's a first... outside of animé at least.

I mean, I get that it looks nothing like DD, so fair point, but delivery, man. Delivery...

@Jackburton1985 not really. Super double dragon and double dragon 3 were 16-bit, plus Iv has a lot of ugly cheap looking backgrounds which don’t match the well drawn sprites of 1 and 2 on the nes. A franchise shouldn’t only be 8-bit and “retro” going forward.

Idk I think the game looks cool. I’d rather a series try something new like this instead of being stuck in “so retro!” Purgatory forever lol

Let’s see if Ogata is willing to settle this like a grown up…

….this Sunday, in the squared circle, surrounded by a steel cage, brother.

I think the game can use more color and the hits could be more impactful (tho that can be changed by the time the game releases) but it still looks like a solid game. The DD series has haad many different looking releases. Its a bit hard to tell just what exactly the tone is supposed to be. And gameplay wise youre just beating guys up as you do in the other DD games. He just sounds like a prick

@bobby_steurer Nah, challenge him to the 1v1 mode in Double Dragon on NES!

Yeah, this 3D games is kind of generic, if the title isn't "Double Dragon" I'll think this is just a random indie beat em up from steam 😕

River city girls 1&2, tmnt shredder's revenge, and street of rage 4 are the perfect example of great modern beat em up 😃

I've played Double Dragon 1 & 2.
They were okay, nothing special.

That said, I really enjoyed the movie!

I can't speak to the gameplay, but visually, I 100% agree with him. This is not Double Dragon. At all. I'll stick with the recent Double Dragon Gaiden. Now that game is awesome.

@wiiware Fight'n rage and streets of rage remake too!

also Rita's Rewind omg h ohgoghuuu ouggghb that game looks so good omfg

Can't really disagree with the artist personally to be honest. I just think this lacks all the visual charm of the original 2D games. And not because it's 3D, but because it's totally charmless 3D.

@PinballBuzzbro in that case they need to upgrade to a Saturn 32 bit with rpg elements. I guess that would be too close to Neon.

The trailer doesn't show a ton. My preliminary reaction is that it doesn't look very appealing. The Double Dragon franchise has been very spotty since the beginning. I think one of the problems it has today is a huge inconsistency within it. Most recently we have seen Double Dragon Gaiden which goes for a goofy look to it which is not like other entries. I think that inconsistency hurts the franchise, or at least holds it back now.

I loved the first DD as a kid. The Master System port was one of my favorite games of the day. I still enjoy the first arcade game. DD2 arcade is a bit of a mess, in my opinion. Genesis port is terrible. NES port is pretty good. My favorite version is the PC Engine Super CD version. Double Dragon 3 existed. I never played DD4, but I remember there were complaints. I seem to recall it didn't have V-sync. My favorite Double Dragon is the GBA game. That is such a good beat-em-up and it does a good job retaining the feel of the original while adding a lot to it. I think DD Advance should be the starting point for any modern versions because it's hard to go wrong with that core gameplay. The only downside to the game for me is the low resolution of the GBA.

He's right. End of story.

He's not being disrespectful, he's being honest.

Quick interpretation: I didn't get paid, ergo, I'm salty.

@BulkSlash Oh man really? I loved DD4. I was so disappointed with Neon and so relieved when 4 came out. They OG dev was a little harsh, but after seeing the trailer, I am a little nervous this is going to feel like a heartless smartphone game.

Yeah it's missing something... maybe I just want the nostalgic feeling of the first and 2nd game redone....

Still gonna wait for the review before I give a final thought. I love DD and I hope it's good.

I completely agree, it looks like trash.

@sdelfin Genesis port is now patched up and better than the arcade. The slowdown present in the ar ade is dreadful. I love the game, but simply cannot play it with adult eyes. It almost stops at times.

@YANDMAN Thanks for letting me know about that. I'll have to check it out. It was clear the Genesis could do a good version of Double Dragon that could stand up to the arcade original, so it was a shame it was deficient. I haven't played the arcade games in a while. I know the first game has slowdown. I remember it more in the second game, and that it was really bad, but it should not have been in either and probably hurt the series in the long run.

@PinballBuzzbro Already bought fight'n rage on switch and pc a couple of years ago, that game is cool too, I like the branching part/story/stage 😃

Absolutely my favorite beat 'em up series of all-time. I hope there will be more traditional entries to come in the future.

@gojiguy Ogata replied to one of his followers on Twitter that "if I get a chance to try it out at Tokyo Game Show, I want to throw the controller at it.”

How is this not being disrespectful?

The Japanese game scene is full of bad blood. Koji Ogata is just one of the few to go public about it. I kind of agree with his criticisms, but LOL if he didn't open a whole can of worms.

these original devs don't have room to talk. the arcade versions of double dragon had horrible performances. the 1st game has finicky hit detection, a time limit on stages, and annoying traps with weird timings on when they would come out. the best version of the 1st double dragon was double dragon neon.