Comments 968

Re: Is It Time To Change The Narrative On The Sega Saturn?

RetroGames

@GhaleonUnlimited When you use the N64 rumble with a game like GoldenEye 64, you realise it feels nothing like the crappy bzzzzz vibration that almost every single modern controller's rumble uses, which is more like a mobile phone vibrating and so unsatisfying imo. It honestly feels much nicer on N64, and more like an actual sensation of kickback. It's so satisfying for both single shots with the Walther PPK and also rapid fire with the RC-P90, and everything in between. I actually miss that kind of rumble and long for it in more modern controllers. I really want that and beyond in modern VR controllers for example. Maybe that's what it's like in the PSVR2's controllers, which are supposed to feel great with both the advanced rumble and resistive triggers, but I haven't tried them so can't say personally how satisfying they are. None of my VR headsets from the Rift CV1 to my Quest 3 have ever had rumble as good as the old N64 controller though, not for me anyway. I think that says a whole lot, given this was the first use of rumble in a gamepad like this (although it was a thing in some PC joysticks before then, most notably the Microsoft Sidewinder ones*, and actually even better than on the N64 controller at that).

PS. Here's a nice little video on the N64 rumble pack: https://youtu.be/JWQ3kJYdf_0?si=mpe4TytzsvFj-tmc and another one https://youtu.be/97_SBOC-I44?si=FEqJoVvojVoZTVjY

*https://youtu.be/MPqF1IuPsBE?si=rYnjr8RBTDcf2SI5

Re: Is It Time To Change The Narrative On The Sega Saturn?

RetroGames

@GhaleonUnlimited Well, that's what opinions are all about. I'd personally pick a brand new N64 controller over the Saturn 3D controller any day of the week. It's especially cool that you can hold an N64 controller in each hand by the centre prong for dual analogue control in games like GoldenEye 64 and Perfect Dark imo--the first time dual analogue fps control was ever a thing, before even the PlayStation got in on it too. But, each person has their own tastes and preferences there. The one thing the Saturn pad simply does not get is any of the credit for being something special in the history of controllers from that generation. That entirely goes the N64 controller for even daring to give us analogue thumbsticks, multiple ways to perfectly play both old 2D and brand new 3D games, which was revolutionary for the time, awesome rumble support that I've yet to feel better on any controller since personally, the trigger button on the centre prong that really makes it feel like holding and shooting a gun, the four controller ports built directly into the console as standard, and even the choice of many different colours just for a little personalisation joy. If we're kinda getting back to the gist of the article, it's the N64 controller that's the one that deserves its rightful place and story in the history books there, and not just some afterthought copy of it. That's just my thoughts on that one thing mind you.

PS. My N64 analogue stick worked perfectly until the day I sold it years after first getting it. But I really do look after all my consoles exceptionally well, so maybe I am just very fortunate in that way.

PPS. You can't really judge the N64 controller based on modern kids not instantly knowing how to hold it properly, at least not fairly anyway. But the people who got it back in the day did get instructions on the three main ways to hold it*, so it's on anyone who didn't read the manual back then if they didn't figure out how to simply hold the thing properly.

*https://statics.vrutal.com/hm/2019/04/VRU_162413_por_si_alguna_vez_preguntaron_como_se_usaba_el_mando_de_la_nintendo_64_aqui_lo_muestra_el_manual.jpg

Re: Is It Time To Change The Narrative On The Sega Saturn?

RetroGames

@GhaleonUnlimited For 2D I will always favour a classic d-pad, and I'll pick the patented NES/SNES d-pad above all. The SNES controller is also still my favourite 2D controller ever. And for 3D games I will always pick an analog thumbstick, of which the N64 was the one that started it all and still feels great to this day when you get a new one. The 3D Saturn controller was a reaction to the groundbreaking N64 controller, just as the PlayStation's Dual Analogue controller was too. They were both just learning from Nintendo's greatness there, and in some ways improving on it and others not. For a modern controller that does it all though, I'm still a big fan of the modern Xbox controllers, possibly with a slight preference for the Xbox One design, and have been a fan since basically the original Xbox' S controller. But that's just my personal take, and I'm sure others have their own too.

Re: Is It Time To Change The Narrative On The Sega Saturn?

RetroGames

@mganai77 You're confused about what I meant.

It didn't stand out because great 2D was well within the capabilities of both of those other systems too, it was a natural and obvious evolution of what came before, and 2D really wasn't the in thing at that moment either. So, regardless of how well it holds up in retrospect, being great at 2D wasn't some USP of Saturn when it actually mattered.

Similarly, you might love its controller, but it's simply wasn't on par with the N64 and PlayStation controllers when all is said and done. It had one genre where someone could argue it was better suited, and the other two system's controller just outright trumped it in every other way. This is something that could be quite easily demonstrated with countless examples, both in terms of analysing the actual physical controllers and their various inputs, but also what new gameplay innovations and such were possible as a result and how well suited those controller were to them.

By almost every measure, the Saturn was a pretty obvious evolution of what came before and didn't do anything truly unique, new or special. It just did the things it did very well, but so did the other systems. And those other systems also did things that were far more impacting and important in the grand scheme of things at the end of the day.

That's what I mean when I say the Saturn didn't stand out: There's three consoles, one blew everything out the water and took the industry to new heights, one was a revolution and paradigm shift in multiple ways, and the other was simply a quality but pretty obvious next step for a next generation console.

It's okay for people to love the Saturn. It's fair to give it due credit for having some great games, especially some really brilliant 2D titles. But there's no serious debate to be had that it's somehow being cheated of its destiny or rightful heights in the history books or whatever by being remembered for being in third place in that console generation and having some great 2D games especially and little more of particular note.

Hey, I actually really like the Saturn and would rank some of its games very highly in the generation--love me some Sega Rally Championship and Panzer Dragoon. I'd also love to see Sega release a Saturn Mini for sure. But I'm just being honest here.

Re: The Guardian Ranks The Greatest UK Video Game Magazines Of All Time

RetroGames

Edge was the "sophisticated" man's gaming mag at the time, but I would 100% put both Mean Machines and Super Play above it. They'd be my own top two gaming mags of all time. And mags like Maximum (shame that was so short lived) and C&VG would rank very highly too. Edge would possibly get the number five spot.

Basically, I think my top five would be:

1. Mean Machines
2. Super Play
3. Maximum
4. C&VG
5. Edge

Re: Is It Time To Change The Narrative On The Sega Saturn?

RetroGames

I think you're maybe pushing your own narrative at this point, as if, what, there's some online movement going on to diminish the Saturn or something like that.

The vast majority of people I've seen online remember the Saturn in a perfectly reasonable, accurate, and actually positive way: It was a great little system, powerful but a pain to develop for and was held back technically somewhat because of that, had a bunch of great games and was especially solid when it came to 2D games, but it ultimately couldn't compete with the likes of PlayStation and N64 at the time in various ways and for various reasons, and therefore it came in third in the console war that generation. That's the story I see most people who talk about this system telling, which seems fair enough.

It's still absolutely a beloved classic console in the eyes of many, and one that probably could have been even more successful if a bunch of circumstances were different--but they weren't.

As I see it, history remembers these consoles exactly as they should: PlayStation utterly dominated the industry then, changed the face of the gaming landscape in many ways, was a brilliant system pretty much all round, had a vast library of games and many greats in there, and deserves all the praise it gets. N64 was truly revolutionary and paradigm shifting in multiple ways, gave us an amazing new way of controlling games and a handful of games that are still now widely regarded as some of the greatest and most important and influential in the history of gaming, certainly in terms of the 3D era and everything that helped define it, and, while it didn't get as much third party support due to the use of cartridges, absolutely earned its place in history. And Saturn was a great system in its own right, but, ultimately, it didn't really stand out in any major way when you put it side by side with those other two absolute giants. It was to the Genesis as the Genesis was to the Master System and the GameCube to the N64 imo, which is obviously more and bigger and better, but ultimately a pretty obvious evolution of what came before it and [very high quality but] standard affair really. Virtue Racing, Virtua Fighter, Sega Rally, etc, while great games, ain't gonna beat the likes of Super Mario 64, Zelda 64, GoldenEye 64 on N64, or Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy VII, etc, on PlayStation in the eyes and hearts of most gamers. And the Saturn's default controller and its only two controller ports can't compete with the N64's kinda huge deal controller that introduced thumbstick analog controls, the Z trigger, multiple ways to control games on a single controller that covered both old and new ways of play, rumble support, and four controller ports, or even stand toe to toe with the pretty standard affair and obvious evolution of the SNES controller but still great original PlayStation controller either.

The Saturn wasn't bad in any way, but it ended up third at the end of the day, and I personally see no issue or unfairness with the general online narrative around that in the slightest when you consider these systems, their capabilities, their control inputs, the games for them, and the circumstances of each system and the companies making them at the time and how they ultimately impacted the industry, etc.

What I personally do see though is a lot of Sega fans in recent times really getting on their high horse about so many things decades after the fact, and actually them being the ones trying to constantly rewrite and "correct" history as they see it. It's like they have some decades-old grudge to bear and all these "wrongs" to right or something. And they often seem to go at it with quite a hostile and attacking approach, like "Sega was right and you were all wrong, and your system and its games were never as good as you thought, so we will now try to diminish the competition decades after the fact, even spin false narratives and outright lie if we have to, and we have to educate you on how it really was and how everyone should properly see it now", and so on.

That's my recent experience online for sure in the last handful of years at least. But, hey, maybe I'm just not getting that story exactly as it is.

PS. I had a Saturn before getting a PlayStation and then ultimately settling on the N64, and I really enjoyed the Saturn. I absolutely loved games like Sega Rally Championship and Panzer Dragoon, and enjoyed quite a few other titles on it too. I certainly wouldn't complain if Sega made a Saturn Mini at some point, that's for sure.

Re: Cronela's Mansion Is A Maniac Mansion Style Point 'N Click Coming To Retro Machines

RetroGames

Looks pretty cool so far, and actually very nice for the NES imo.

I'm hoping he does a bit more on the SNES version than what he's mentioned to date and at least tries to get the visuals up to around the same level as the GBA and PC versions. Right now I think he's just using the NES visuals for the SNES port, but I think it deserves better than that. And, since he already has all the higher colour art for those other versions I mentioned anyway, it really would be disappointing if he doesn't try to at least get somewhere close to that level of visuals on the SNES version too. Fingers crossed.

Given we've not really seen anything specific for the SNES version that I'm aware of, it has a little worried about that version to be honest. Will it end up getting cancelled or something. Who knows.

Still, as it stands, I'm happy to hear it is so far coming to the SNES, which is a bonus for fans of that system.

Re: Incredibly Rare SNES Prototype Goes Up For Auction

RetroGames

@Axelay71 Not sure this is one of those features that was particularly desired at any point for any home consoles to be honest. This is probably why the vast majority of them never bothered with it.

With Genesis, I think this was the only way to listen to the games in stereo back then via normal official means though, if I recall correctly, so I guess it made sense there. With SNES, I think you got stereo as standard through the TV via the normal official cables and connections, and even proper Dolby Surround sound in a few games too--if you were lucky enough to have a surround sound setup.

I had a Dolby Pro Logic setup back in the day on my Toshiba TV, and yet I didn't even realise I could take advantage of it with some of my SNES games. And that's a real shame, as I can only imagine how cool it must have been listening to games like Seiken Densetsu 3, Star Fox, Super Turrican 1 and 2, Castlevania IV, Gundam Wing: Endless Duel, Donkey Kong Country, Yoshi's Island, etc, back then in surround sound coming from a humble SNES.

Note: Online says those games I listed supported surround sound, either officially with a Dolby Surround sound license or unofficially, but I've not verified if that's true for all those titles myself. I know some definitely did though, as it literally says so on the title screens and such, like with Super Turrican 1 and 2 for example.

Re: Evercade EXP-R And Evercade VS-R Consoles Launch With Tomb Raider This July

RetroGames

The system's design is starting to lose its original charm and look a bit meh for me (to be fair, I think it's just those green buttons, that look baaad imo). And even then I always thought the original was a little bit of an ugly stepchild at that. But, outside of my opinion on the design of the physical hardware, I really do think these Evercade guys have done a great job with their whole concept.

Re: Mighty Final Fight Is Getting An Awesome Fan-Made Sequel

RetroGames

Very cool.

On a related note: If someone were to convert the original NES game to run directly on SNES, maybe infidelity for example, since this is something he's already done for a bunch of NES games and with pretty awesome results (https://archive.org/details/@infidelity), I think you'd be able to update all the pixel art to look pretty similar to this with full 16-bit colours there. I mean, it wouldn't be quite on par with these modern-retro visuals, because it would ultimately still be a NES game with added SNES colours, but it would just be rather cool to see it running on an actual original SNES like that.

Anyhoo, this new version of the game looks very nice.

Re: CIBSunday: Nintendo Game Boy

RetroGames

I really wish Nintendo would make a Game Boy Classic Mini.

Although, maybe what I really want is some mishmash system that looks just like the original Game Boy aesthetically but a little smaller and about half as thick, with a lovely modern backlit display, and probably even in colour so it can also play GBC games too or something like that. I'm not sure that's really a Game Boy Mini anymore, but if it were an official product with like 20-50 games built in or whatever, I think I'd get it.

Ideally, I'd actually want something that could play and had a bunch of GB, GBC and GBA built into one design. But at that point I really can't decide what would be the best way to go. Maybe a re-release of the seminal GBAS SP design [in black for me personally] with a stunning new display and a bunch of games from those various systems built in would be the answer.

I'm just imagining really.

Re: Anniversary: Duck Hunt Is 40 Years Old

RetroGames

The Zapper is what makes this game imo. Such a simple and effective design for the time.

It's kinda annoying how clunky and crappy the SNES Super Scope was as a design by comparison imo. A simple Super Zapper would have been perfect, and I expect a lot more successful too.

Re: CIBSunday: Sega Multi-Mega

RetroGames

@Zenszulu Probably the best solution would have been not to release all those separate things in the first place and just go from Mega Drive to Saturn (and I'd take the Mega CD in the middle at a push). But hindsight is a great thing.

Re: CIBSunday: Sega Multi-Mega

RetroGames

What Sega really needed was a system that combined the Mega Drive, Mega CD and 32X all in one. And then people could have all the main systems Sega made specifically for the Mega Drive in that generation in one place--without the need for the terrible "Tower of Power" Frankenstein setup.

It's such a convoluted range of options there. And all these different add-on or combo systems didn't come cheap either. Sega was even planning the combo Mega Drive and 32X Neptune system too. It really didn't do itself any favours at all.

Still, this is a slick bit of hardware in and of itself for sure.

Re: PS1 Doom Has Been Backported To PC, Along With Its Amazing Soundtrack

RetroGames

@smoreon "Er, that "older footage" is only from 2010."

True, but 14 years is eons in the Internet age, and I think just on the cusp of when everyone started letting the Internet tell them what they're supposed to think and how they're supposed to act. So my main point there was just to demonstrate how I think most people actually played classic Doom before them younger folks and Doom [2016] apparently corrected us all that Doom is about going all hell for leather at all times, focussing on racking up kudos and presumably a bunch of achievements/trophies, and little more.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to be humming the tunes from PSX Doom and Doom 64. One of the tracks [or more] has the sounds of babies crying. Creepy stuff.

Re: Meet Short Stack, The World's Smallest Nintendo Wii

RetroGames

I actually really like this. The Wii Classic Mini really could be a thing.

Edit: Ah, wait, it doesn't take the small Wii discs? I think I would like it more if it still took those. Still, would technically still be in line with the rest of Nintendo's Classic Mini range, since none of those use the original physical game cartridges anyway.

Re: PS1 Doom Has Been Backported To PC, Along With Its Amazing Soundtrack

RetroGames

@Sketcz I guess it comes down to what you're looking for, or, more precisely, listening for.

I'm not listening for some '90s heavy metal music track, but a soundscape that actually enhances Doom as a hellish fps game, that properly draws me in, and that creates a genuine sense of tension, discomfort and fear. I'm after a total immersion into that world and a more scary and tense experience, not some head banging moshing while I try to score kudos points for how creatively I can kill things. And I also don't rush through it like I'm just trying to get on some leaderboard or something.

Not that I don't like heavy metal (love me some Enter Sandman), and not that I don't think the original Doom tunes sound great for what they are either--I wouldn't have a single complaint if in some alternate universe the Aubrey Hodges version had never existed so there was only the original music and that's all I ever knew--but they're not even remotely as well matched to a game called Doom that's about all the terrifying forces of Hell ascending upon mankind with you as the only person there to try and stop them all on your own alone, as the Aubrey Hodges soundscape in my personal opinion. Unless that's not how you see the game at all.

Many people play Doom almost like a speedrunning or achievement/trophy exercise, where it's about trying to look cool and badass or whatever as they rush through it while never even stopping to smell the roses, even more so with the modern Doom games that lean way more into this style of play, and I have no doubt some fast-paced heavy metal soundtrack fits that kind of mentality more.

And, of course, the heavy metal soundtrack is the original, so most people are going to pick it because it's the original and it's not Doom without it to them. Which also rings true if you're in your late teens or whatever and the first Doom game you played was also Doom [2016].

But, to me, the original Doom soundtrack is very energetic and high intensity and quite obviously "gamey", whereas the Aubrey Hodges soundtrack is something I could genuinely believe the likes of Ridley Scott or Stanley Kubrick might have picked if they'd made a Doom movie back in the day. In video game land it's basically the Contra approach vs the Super Metroid approach in terms of audio. And I know what I'd personally pick every single time.

And, I mean, watch older footage of someone just playing the game naturally without any modern Internet mindset of how it's supposed to be played:

https://youtu.be/K0nlO87evhY?si=WF3CbwQuT33bkBQ4&t=30

They're not speedrunning, they're not "ripping and tearing", and, despite the music being more heavy metal and high energy in the original there, the way they are playing is very deliberate, considered and nuanced. In fact, they're playing in a way that seems to line up more with a Doom game like this imo:

https://youtu.be/A9xVaHDaQ30?si=E8nhjFHnKqeVKRfz&t=97

And that's exactly how I personally played it back in the day too. Of course, I played the PSX version first, so go figure.

And, remember, when the original DOS version of Doom first released, it didn't come with WASD + mouse control as the default. In fact, I'm not even sure that was an option at all originally. So, I question how many people way back in the days of the original game that started it all were actually zipping their way through it like possessed bats out of Hell using entirely keyboard controls, and, as I recall, clunky ones at that, even though the original music sounds like it would be more suited to that kind of play.

It's also interesting that when Quake rolled around, id and Trent Reznor didn't stick with the more high intensity, high action music approach, but went with something far more similar to that Aubrey Hodges ambient and atmospheric soundtrack there too:

https://youtu.be/dPQO03UmicE?si=GfPoSaF0M3hlmaKW&t=157

So, I go back to saying I guess it comes down to what you're looking for, or, more precisely, listening for.

Each to their own.

PS. I wonder how both versions would fair if experienced in VR, where total immersion and a sense of very real presence is key there.... I mean, I guess you could just pretend you were listening to some kickass Iron Maiden or Pantera on your Sony Walkman while killing the hordes of demons, kinda like the modern Guardians of the Galaxy movie action scene approach, but I know what approach I would prefer by a million miles. I'm more Alien Isolation VR and Half-Life: Alyx style all the way.

Re: A Fanmade Mega Man 3 SNES Port Is In The Works

RetroGames

Infidelity is on a mission. And I support him all the way. These NES to SNES ports are opening up a lot of possibilities for "All-Stars" versions of so many NES games now that they are running directly on the SNES. And having bonuses like various QoL features plus MSU1 video intros and audio and such is great too.

Re: This Astonishing Metal Gear Anime Is The Work Of Just One Person

RetroGames

@Daniel36 Personally, I'm not convinced people actually do adore that style, more that they simply don't know any better and have no reason to think what they're getting is crap because everything else looks the same these days anyway. But it is the current thing, so there's not much I can do but moan and hope we eventually get better.

Have you seen that Arcane animated TV show? Now that looks gorgeous and worthy of our times. I can only imagine how genuinely stunning a combination of everything else about Invincible with that general quality of art [not necessarily the exact same almost painterly style] and animation might be.