@Serpenterror I mean, you're not actually wrong. I just saw a mod of the PC version of Doom recently that added in all the N64 stuff, and it was dang impressive and didn't require any of the hassle of trying to get your hands on an old Dreamcast and everything required to play that optimally.
I think it was this one, which is a bit different that what I thought and adds lots of stuff with a bit of Doom II mixed with Doom 64:
Basically, there's really a crap load of options for modding PC Doom these days.
Still, for the small group of people who will ever actually play it on a real Dreamcast, it's pretty cool.
At most I'll give it a go on a wee emulator though. And that's honestly the case for basically all of these new games for retro consoles to be honest, unless they literally can't be played on modern emulators or the likes of my hacked SNES Mini because they use custom chips or something. It just is what it is.
Only zombies--and people who don't want to be abused by digital only that offers consumers really no rights or true ownership of anything at all. And if they did own it properly, it would still be completely intangible with no cool box and manual and actual media to hold onto, cherish decades down the line, and even just pass down to your sibling or exchange for a bit of cash back in the future if you so choose. Choice and genuine ownership--never forget.
@Shiryu Me too. It probably will. Most of these new retro games tend to be playable beyond the console they're typically marketed on. And that's great, as being stuck to only original hardware is often a right pain. Now we can usually play these awesome new indie/homebrew titles pretty much wherever we want. Xeno Crisis being like the epitome of that in modern times. That game is available on everything!
At times I honestly think this could pass for an early pc engine or even genesis shmup.
This kind of game really shows how just being in current times allows developers to push these systems in ways that most people think simply isn't possible and was almost never done back in the day for various practical reasons. And it clearly demonstrates that it's not because the hardware itself is some magical infinite resource of technical capability--this is just a little 8-bit NES after all--but rather it takes the right team, tools, and time to actually push these systems like this. That's the real secret sauce to much of the indie/homebrew magic we're seeing in recent times on these classic retro systems.
And, genuinely, if this team can make a game so stunning on NES, just imagine what they could do if they move onto the SNES in the future. I really hope they do.
I might give this a try on my SNES Mini, which, if not just giving some retro game a quick go on my PC via whatever emulator, is where I play basically all my SNES, Genesis, PC Engine, Neo Geo, NES, Master System, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, MAME, etc, retro games these days. Such a great little system and ideal for having everything in one place. And perfect for me, as I really can't be bothered with old original hardware and bulky CRTs and all the faff required to setup and use those in modern times.
Side question: Has anyone in here tried EmuVR? You'll understand why I'm asking that here if you know what EmuVR is. Sooo cool.
I truly wish there was a version of this game in VR. I played a version on Dolphin that allows you to see it in stereoscopic 3D, and it is just so cool. The effect works brilliantly. But being able to actually step into that world in VR and have those insanity effects messing with your head would just be awesome.
@UtopiaNemo I happily left it just as it was for many decades. They simply couldn't. And then, when they openly posted their bitterness towards other consoles and their fans that live in their heads rent free and have clearly done so for decades, which is their way to not quite cope, I simply responded in a way they understand. I'm really just the inevitable symptom of their disease, or maybe the natural "immune" response to it. And I think if we all figure out where this kind of virus actually started in recent times, try to stop it there at the root cause whenever it rears its ugly head again, we'll all ultimately be better off.
@UtopiaNemo So be it. Damien started it with the article. A few of us responded with our own takes. I'm still responding to other people's takes. So are you too, to me in this case. And Damien and whomever else in the future will try the same thing again, I have no doubt. And I'll respond to that. Maybe you will too. And, just like me, you're also free to stop commenting at any time you so choose. That's how it goes.
@Fanboy_Destroyer And I've never said anything to the contrary.
What I am saying is that the PlayStation dominated the Saturn and won that console generation handily. And some people can't cope with that, so, literally decades after the fact, they need to dwell on the irrelevant tech specs of these ancient consoles that are no longer relevant. However, PlayStation was, is, and always will be the real winner here, and Sega is basically dead in the hardware debate. And that's been living in certain Sega fan's heads for decades and will continue to do so for all time.
Me, I loved my N64, and I am still comfortable with and happy to simply accept and call the PlayStation the winner it was.
When you actually understand the true motivation behind this article with that specific title quote and why it even exists beyond the pretty obvious clickbait part . . .
PS. I think all three consoles are great in their own ways.
@Fanboy_Destroyer And why are you so obsessed with buying into the bitter and desperate clutching of the article?
The PlayStation won--by a long way. The Saturn lost--by a long way. And Sony and indeed PlayStation live on as strong as ever. And Sega is basically dead as a console manufacturer and the Saturn is a footnote in history. It's clearly a very hard pill to swallow for some.
So, again, maybe Sega should have actually done a better job.
But, hey, the Saturn was more powerful than the PlayStation!!!
@Fanboy_Destroyer Read my comments, I'm an N64 fan.
"The PlayStation trounced the Saturn, but who cares, the PlayStation and Saturn are now in the past and everyone can enjoy them with emulation and FPGA.
This is exactly my point, the PlayStation was and still is the clear winner and console of choice over the Saturn, but the hardcore Saturn and Sega fanboys can't cope with this and start throwing pointless things like outdated and now utterly irrelevant tech specs around to cope with the fact the PlayStation handily won the generation and neither the Saturn nor Sega is relevant in the grand scheme of things anymore."
There, I fixed it for you.
And, like I said before, maybe Sega should have actually done a better job, because it's now mostly a historical footnote. What a real shame.
@Fanboy_Destroyer But this, but that, but whatever.
The article is imo a thinly veiled appeal to a group of bitter Sega fans and an attempt to retroactively make the Saturn [or insert any other Sega console of choice here] more relevant than it ever was in some decrepit debate around the irrelevant tech specs and power of decades old systems by someone who can't get over the fact it thoroughly lost to the PlayStation and has been using flame bait articles and headlines like this as a way to try to right that "wrong" for all the most hardcore "Saturn" fans and Sega community in some small way--imo.
But the Saturn did lose massively to the PlayStation, and no one can retroactively change that fact of reality. And very selectively finding random quotes online in among hours of discussion and proclaiming decades later "But, look, that guy said Saturn was more powerful"" means nothing. Saturn lost, handily. Sega lost, handily--every single time. It is what it is.
But, sure, Saturn was apparently more powerful. I hope it soothes the wounds.
@AFourEyedGeek Well, I certainly don't personally think being the most powerful console means much.
But it's apparently not truly about the experience for some of these most loyal Sega fans, as they don't appear to be able to accept the multiple tens of millions of people who had more fun playing some of the best and most universally critically acclaimed games in the world on their amazing PlayStation and N64 and NES and SNES and Xbox and PS2 and GameCube and Game Boy and SNES Mini consoles, etc. Hence they always get fixated on reliving arguments over tech specs and seem obsessed with mentioning how whatever Sega system was more powerful than the competition at every possible opportunity literally decades after any of these consoles were relevant.
So, it seems they don't like to hear another console vastly outsold their Sega console, or that it had way more games, or that some of those games were more universally acclaimed, or that the games sold more, or that more of those games still appear in all Best Games of All time lists, or that the other console had a better controller, or that there's some areas where the other console is in fact technically more powerful and capable, or be reminded that Sega is basically dead as a console manufacturer, etc, because that sounds a bit like losing again to them. And I think they just need to hear people say their Sega consoles were more powerful because it makes them feel vindicated for choosing them or something, even if they picked the runner up or losing console in the market each and every time they chose Sega.
So that's fine, they can have that: The Saturn was more powerful than the PlayStation and N64.
I think I get it now: Sega lost in terms of market success in literally every single console generation it ever competed in, both home console and handheld, and that must have been really hard to keep living through for the most loyal Sega fans. OK, I think I understand why it's so important to continue to look for a win somewhere even though Sega hasn't been relevant in the console space for literally decades. So, sure, Saturn is exceptionally more powerful than the PlayStation. I presume it's important to say it was more powerful than N64 too, right. So, sure, it was more powerful than N64 too. You win.
@UtopiaNemo I'm curious, why do you think that specific quote is the particular one Damien plucked and used as the title headline and focus of this little article, and is indeed the impetus behind it?
Initially I thought Damien was posting about an actual Tweet from Jez San, but it apparently came from this over three hour long stream that's mainly chatting about and playing the new Croc remaster:
I mean, what the hell is the assertion or argument here:
"We bitter Saturn fans picked the generation's loser--once again--but, because some dude said it was more powerful in a stream and some of these random technical specs are better, we should have won!"
Well, you didn't. And you'll have to learn to live with that.
@avcrypt The point is none of that tech crap matters decades later.
What mattered was the PlayStation got many more games, most people would say it got the better games ultimately, its games were spectacular for the time, it had the superior controllers for playing those games, it was a massive success for everyone involved, it left all the people who bought it totally satisfied, most people would still choose it over Saturn again, and it made Sony a dominant force in gaming hardware that's still completely relevant today.
It seems very much to me that the completely outdated tech of these decades old consoles is only being brought up constantly now in articles like this by bitter Sega fans who can't get over the fact the PS1 won the generation, just like they can't get over any generation Sega lost apparently. Otherwise why argue about the specs of decades old and completely and utterly outdated machines at all if none of it made a difference in all the ways that mattered and when it mattered when all is and done. It's because some people simply can't deal with the way things went down. They cannot get over it. So they obsess with utterly irrelevant arguments over long-irrelevant numbers on bits of paper.
But Saturn lost and PlayStation won. PlayStation delivered some of the greatest games of the generation and indeed all time. PlayStation became a household brand, while Sega ultimately got knocked out the hardware business and Microsoft took its place. And Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are still dominant today, while Sega is history in the hardware space, and it is what it is.
Regardless of any other claims, maybe Sega should have actually done a better job, because it's now mostly a historical footnote.
@Toohats Cool, but PDS is not showing better graphics with more effects at a higher frame rate on Saturn than the PlayStation that I can see, which is your contention here, right.
Well, you're saying the Saturn is more powerful anyway, so it would be great to at least see some clear examples of this that truly make the difference and do so beyond debate.
And it's still not going to make the vast majority of people care more about the Saturn than PlayStation or change history, which is why rubbish like this about random specs typically comes up decades later--like [insert Sega console] got robbed of its destiny or whatever.
Now, I don't know if Saturn could do that, but there isn't any driving game on the system I can think of that looks that good with the same level of draw distance and all the effects and so on at once running at 50-60fps.
And Gran Turismo 2 is another standout there on PS1 imo:
@UtopiaNemo Yeah, I agree. He's just a bitter troll wasting everyone's time with rubbish that matters not. And the article is partly to blame too for playing to such pointless rubbish. Nothing to see here.
@Toohats Actually, it's very hard to see. I think that's kind of the point, and why certain people have to keep mentioning random specs on paper or posting random tweet quotes rather than showing the actual evidence. Not that any of it matters. And it will still never make the vast majority of people pick Saturn over PlayStation. So maybe time to cope, just love the Saturn in and of itself, and move on.
@Toohats And I think we all know why the article even exists in the first place, so the rest of the point becomes relevant: Some dude randomly mentioned Saturn is more powerful, some dude istantly jumped right on that and produced an entire article around it--decades later still bitter much--and basically everyone (the vast majority) will always still pick the PlayStation over the Saturn [and N64] regardless and for very good reasons. Saturn lost, and PlayStation utterly domintated it in every way that actually mattered and always will. Deal with it.
@Toohats And it's irrelevant. It's a pointless fanboy argument that tries to pretend all that matters is some numbers on paper, when that never has been true and never will be true. What is true is that Saturn lost the console war handily. It will never ever be a better choice than PlayStation for the vast majority of gamers. It will never ever be held in higher regard than the PlayStation by the vast majority of gamers and across the entire video games industry in general. It wil never have a bigger games library than PlayStation. It will never have some of the true all-time greats that made the PlayStation so special. Saturn is just not the PlayStation and it never will be. And some people need to grow up and deal with both the loss and that fact.
The PlayStation is a great example of a console that did pretty much every single thing right. It absolutely deserved all the success and praise it got back in the day. And it still deserves it very much now too. One of the all-time greats of the video games industry for sure.
@Toohats What would be really great is if there was actually a bunch of Saturn games that proved this by doing stuff more impressive than we saw on the PS1, which I just don't think is the case outside of some 2D titles. And let's be honest, I think most people would rather have what they see as a more powerful 3D system than what they see as a more powerful 2D system, whatever the full technical truth under the hood of each may be. The PlayStation delivered, it got the most games by far, a bunch of them all-time greats, sold the most games by far, sold the most consoles by far, had the better controller(s), had the cooler looking hardware (imo), etc. No reasonable person who isn't just bitter about their system of choice not being top dog can seriously backwards rationalise the situation and expect more than that of Sony and PlayStation. The PlayStation was an absolute master class in doing basically everything perfect for its time. And I think some people might need to learn to deal with that just a little bit better. As an N64 guy, I have done that without too much pain.
@Leynos Sure, in terms of the total number of games, the Saturn beats the N64. But I think a few people would argue that nothing on Saturn ever touched the genuinely revolutionary, greatest of all time, and enduring status of games like Super Mario 64, GoldenEye, Ocarina of Time, etc. And there's plenty of other total classics on the N64 too like F-Zero X, Wave Race, Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie, Paper Mario, Diddy Kong Racing, Majora's Mask, Perfect Dark, Sin and Punishment, Smash Bros., Conker's Bad Fur Day, etc. So it's great to have lots of games for sure, but it's also great to have some of the best [exclusive] games ever created on N64 as well. And I mean games that still appear on most Best Games of All Time lists rather than just some games a handful of people think are great personally. Not that Saturn didn't have some greats too, just not many you'll see on most Best Games of All Time lists as I recall. Although Sega Rally on Saturn is absolutely one of my favourite racing games of all time. But let's not try to attack the N64, because it did far more for gaming than Saturn ever did and ever will--and it's not even close.
I think a lot of Sega fans are holding a lot of bitterness from multiple generations of consoles or something, so they get totally fixated these days on how their system's were hard done by and how everyone was wrong about them, as if everyone said they were weak or whatever, which most people actually never really did. But it's all largely completely irrelevant.
Console fans should just be happy with their system of choice if they truly enjoyed it at the time, whatever their system of choice was.
I picked the N64, which got its ass handed to it at the end of the day by PlayStation in many ways, and certainly in terms of the sheer size and breadth and depth of the games library and sales. If given the choice today, I might even pick the PlayStation--I technically did initially and then sold it to get my N64--but I totally loved my N64 and see no need to argue where it was more powerful than the PlayStation to somehow try and sooth the wound of the loss.
I loved my N64, and I can still say both the Saturn and PlayStation were great too, without having to cling to the blinkered belief that some under the hood spec of the N64 proves it was robbed of its deserved victory in that console generation or whatever.
Let's say we all accept he's 100% accurate. Well, shame it didn't matter when all is said and done, at least not to the over one hundred million people who picked the PlayStation over the Saturn and were 100% satisfied with that choice. And even now I guarantee you that the vast majority of people would still pick the PlayStation over the Saturn again if they had the choice today. So it still doesn't matter. It simply is what it is. Saturn is clearly a great little console. And the PlayStation is the PlayStation! Nuff said.
I expect for the vast majority of people this won't be an issue. But, for a minority of really hardcore and basically elitist types, I expect nothing will truly be ideal for them other than playing on real hardware, which, ironically, is a total pain in the *ss for the vast majority of people these days.
Really, while playing on the original consoles [and probably ideally on an old CRT too] is obviously the purest way to play these classic games, almost any other option these days is likely better for most people just wanting to spend a few minutes trying out these games for a bit of fun.
I'm sure most people are perfectly happy playing the likes of NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, etc, games on their Switch systems. And, really, this is the only official way you can do this on one system at this point in time, so it is what it is.
I wonder what these people think of say the SNES Mini and any lag there for example, as I personally think it's frikin' brilliant regardless of any minor lag, and absolutely the most enjoyable actually practical and hassle free way of playing these retro games that I've found in recent times.
Now, if I can go off on a wee tangent and talk about playing original Game Boy and Game Boy Color games for a moment, I think the ModRetro Chromatic looks absolutely brilliant and basically perfect for that purpose.
By the way, Time Extension, there should be an obvious link in the article directly to the game's page on some store or whatever so people can actually purchase it and support the charity.
It's funny and frustrating how so many modern indie/homebrew SNES games look like they've been designed and made by school project teams over the course of a few weeks and in extremely restrictive conditions.
I think there's even some slowdown shown here, which is honestly just bonkers with a game this seemingly basic.
It's really not helping dispel all the modern mostly false narratives being peddled everywhere around SNES these days, pushed largely by a group of particular bad actors and disgruntled SNES haters.
Still, it's a new SNES game and looks fun enough for what it is, so I welcome it.
Keep em coming! And let's hope we see even more and even better stuff in the coming weeks, months, and years too.
Edit: By the way, Time Extension, there should be an obvious link in the article directly to the game's page on some store or whatever so people can actually purchase it and support the charity.
Yeah, all the in-game HD stuff looks phoned in and kinda "Flash" art fugly imo. It's the worst kind of "HD update" for me. But the original pixel art there still looks lovely.
PS. I don't really give a toss if the promo art was created using AI if actually looks good. And it looks pretty good to me at a quick glance. But the in-game HD visuals look meh to me, so if those are done with AI too then I have a problem with that purely because the end result just looks crap in my very humble opinion.
Ultimately, we ain't escaping the inevitable use of AI art in gaming and so on, so people had best learn to cope there. But the least we can ask is that the end result actually looks genuinely good and well put together.
Hey, at least it's actually real. But let's be real, dude who made this knew the audience he was playing--and it somewhat worked out for him. That's my hot take on it.
Very cool. With this and the previous NES one, I'm now really hoping they make a SNES themed one for the upcoming SNES 35th birthday or whatever, in both the [ahem] American style and the lovely Japanese/European style.
@truerbluer Yeah, I've played that, but it doesn't quite capture what I'm after and is actually a bit more like Star Fox 64 than the original for me. I just want the original in basically modern output resolution and frame rate with no pop-in.
Comments 968
Re: Fan-Made Doom 64 Dreamcast Port Now The "Definitive" Version Of The Game
@Falco_Girgis Cool. That's probably how I'll play it if I get around to it, basically on some PC emulator and with my Xbox One controller hooked up.
Re: Fan-Made Doom 64 Dreamcast Port Now The "Definitive" Version Of The Game
@Serpenterror I mean, you're not actually wrong. I just saw a mod of the PC version of Doom recently that added in all the N64 stuff, and it was dang impressive and didn't require any of the hassle of trying to get your hands on an old Dreamcast and everything required to play that optimally.
I think it was this one, which is a bit different that what I thought and adds lots of stuff with a bit of Doom II mixed with Doom 64:
https://youtu.be/ssYFxNAwfrM?si=YnkZsz7tKMD1COcF
And this is a very cool mix of the PlayStation Doom and N64 Doom running in PC Doom too:
https://youtu.be/1v10OUqFvJE?si=Ls0_AzPAkmHjSa64
Basically, there's really a crap load of options for modding PC Doom these days.
Still, for the small group of people who will ever actually play it on a real Dreamcast, it's pretty cool.
At most I'll give it a go on a wee emulator though. And that's honestly the case for basically all of these new games for retro consoles to be honest, unless they literally can't be played on modern emulators or the likes of my hacked SNES Mini because they use custom chips or something. It just is what it is.
Re: Fan-Made Doom 64 Dreamcast Port Now The "Definitive" Version Of The Game
@RossoftheRobots Perfect. Thanks.
Re: Theme Park's "Smoking Mechanic" Is A Perfect Example Of Peter Molyneux's Love Of "Introduced Fallacy"
Brilliant. That's our Peter.
Re: Interview: Secret Of Mana Composer Hiroki Kikuta Reflects On The Timeless SNES Soundtrack
Well, talk about a classic. Also very impressed the first game and the sequel supported Dolby Surround sound too as I recall. The cherry on top.
Re: Fan-Made Doom 64 Dreamcast Port Now The "Definitive" Version Of The Game
So, what modern PC emulators can I play this on?
Zero chance I'm getting a Dreamcast to play it.
Re: "Only Zombies Buy Physical Games" Says Digital Code Retailer CDKeys
Only zombies--and people who don't want to be abused by digital only that offers consumers really no rights or true ownership of anything at all. And if they did own it properly, it would still be completely intangible with no cool box and manual and actual media to hold onto, cherish decades down the line, and even just pass down to your sibling or exchange for a bit of cash back in the future if you so choose. Choice and genuine ownership--never forget.
Re: Review: Changeable Guardian Estique (NES) - Shmups Don't Get Much Better Than This On NES
@Razieluigi Yeah, I think that would have been a great way to go with including both options on the one cart if possible.
Re: Review: Changeable Guardian Estique (NES) - Shmups Don't Get Much Better Than This On NES
@Shiryu Me too. It probably will. Most of these new retro games tend to be playable beyond the console they're typically marketed on. And that's great, as being stuck to only original hardware is often a right pain. Now we can usually play these awesome new indie/homebrew titles pretty much wherever we want. Xeno Crisis being like the epitome of that in modern times. That game is available on everything!
Re: Review: Changeable Guardian Estique (NES) - Shmups Don't Get Much Better Than This On NES
It's just stunning.
At times I honestly think this could pass for an early pc engine or even genesis shmup.
This kind of game really shows how just being in current times allows developers to push these systems in ways that most people think simply isn't possible and was almost never done back in the day for various practical reasons. And it clearly demonstrates that it's not because the hardware itself is some magical infinite resource of technical capability--this is just a little 8-bit NES after all--but rather it takes the right team, tools, and time to actually push these systems like this. That's the real secret sauce to much of the indie/homebrew magic we're seeing in recent times on these classic retro systems.
And, genuinely, if this team can make a game so stunning on NES, just imagine what they could do if they move onto the SNES in the future. I really hope they do.
Great stuff.
Re: This Christmas, You'll Be Able To Play SNES Batman Returns On Your Genesis, For Free
I might give this a try on my SNES Mini, which, if not just giving some retro game a quick go on my PC via whatever emulator, is where I play basically all my SNES, Genesis, PC Engine, Neo Geo, NES, Master System, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, MAME, etc, retro games these days. Such a great little system and ideal for having everything in one place. And perfect for me, as I really can't be bothered with old original hardware and bulky CRTs and all the faff required to setup and use those in modern times.
Side question: Has anyone in here tried EmuVR? You'll understand why I'm asking that here if you know what EmuVR is. Sooo cool.
Re: Review: The GBA Pixel Book - A Gorgeous Tribute To The Last Great 2D Console
I think this is one I'll get the ol' wife to order me for Xmas.
Re: The Amiga Just Got An Amazing New Star Wars Game, Made By Fans
Dang, even though it looks a bit like it's some kind of Sega CD interactive FMV and ideally requires a high end Amiga, that's impressive.
Re: Eternal Darkness Playable On Dolphin Again After Being "A Thorn" In Its Developers' Sides
I truly wish there was a version of this game in VR. I played a version on Dolphin that allows you to see it in stereoscopic 3D, and it is just so cool. The effect works brilliantly. But being able to actually step into that world in VR and have those insanity effects messing with your head would just be awesome.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@UtopiaNemo I think you are correct. But I think what I have is actually a mild form of autism combined with OCPD. All good.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@UtopiaNemo I happily left it just as it was for many decades. They simply couldn't. And then, when they openly posted their bitterness towards other consoles and their fans that live in their heads rent free and have clearly done so for decades, which is their way to not quite cope, I simply responded in a way they understand. I'm really just the inevitable symptom of their disease, or maybe the natural "immune" response to it. And I think if we all figure out where this kind of virus actually started in recent times, try to stop it there at the root cause whenever it rears its ugly head again, we'll all ultimately be better off.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@UtopiaNemo So be it. Damien started it with the article. A few of us responded with our own takes. I'm still responding to other people's takes. So are you too, to me in this case. And Damien and whomever else in the future will try the same thing again, I have no doubt. And I'll respond to that. Maybe you will too. And, just like me, you're also free to stop commenting at any time you so choose. That's how it goes.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@Fanboy_Destroyer And I've never said anything to the contrary.
What I am saying is that the PlayStation dominated the Saturn and won that console generation handily. And some people can't cope with that, so, literally decades after the fact, they need to dwell on the irrelevant tech specs of these ancient consoles that are no longer relevant. However, PlayStation was, is, and always will be the real winner here, and Sega is basically dead in the hardware debate. And that's been living in certain Sega fan's heads for decades and will continue to do so for all time.
Me, I loved my N64, and I am still comfortable with and happy to simply accept and call the PlayStation the winner it was.
When you actually understand the true motivation behind this article with that specific title quote and why it even exists beyond the pretty obvious clickbait part . . .
PS. I think all three consoles are great in their own ways.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@Fanboy_Destroyer And why are you so obsessed with buying into the bitter and desperate clutching of the article?
The PlayStation won--by a long way. The Saturn lost--by a long way. And Sony and indeed PlayStation live on as strong as ever. And Sega is basically dead as a console manufacturer and the Saturn is a footnote in history. It's clearly a very hard pill to swallow for some.
So, again, maybe Sega should have actually done a better job.
But, hey, the Saturn was more powerful than the PlayStation!!!
"Coping"
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@Fanboy_Destroyer Read my comments, I'm an N64 fan.
"The PlayStation trounced the Saturn, but who cares, the PlayStation and Saturn are now in the past and everyone can enjoy them with emulation and FPGA.
This is exactly my point, the PlayStation was and still is the clear winner and console of choice over the Saturn, but the hardcore Saturn and Sega fanboys can't cope with this and start throwing pointless things like outdated and now utterly irrelevant tech specs around to cope with the fact the PlayStation handily won the generation and neither the Saturn nor Sega is relevant in the grand scheme of things anymore."
There, I fixed it for you.
And, like I said before, maybe Sega should have actually done a better job, because it's now mostly a historical footnote. What a real shame.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@Fanboy_Destroyer But this, but that, but whatever.
The article is imo a thinly veiled appeal to a group of bitter Sega fans and an attempt to retroactively make the Saturn [or insert any other Sega console of choice here] more relevant than it ever was in some decrepit debate around the irrelevant tech specs and power of decades old systems by someone who can't get over the fact it thoroughly lost to the PlayStation and has been using flame bait articles and headlines like this as a way to try to right that "wrong" for all the most hardcore "Saturn" fans and Sega community in some small way--imo.
But the Saturn did lose massively to the PlayStation, and no one can retroactively change that fact of reality. And very selectively finding random quotes online in among hours of discussion and proclaiming decades later "But, look, that guy said Saturn was more powerful"" means nothing. Saturn lost, handily. Sega lost, handily--every single time. It is what it is.
But, sure, Saturn was apparently more powerful. I hope it soothes the wounds.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@AFourEyedGeek Well, I certainly don't personally think being the most powerful console means much.
But it's apparently not truly about the experience for some of these most loyal Sega fans, as they don't appear to be able to accept the multiple tens of millions of people who had more fun playing some of the best and most universally critically acclaimed games in the world on their amazing PlayStation and N64 and NES and SNES and Xbox and PS2 and GameCube and Game Boy and SNES Mini consoles, etc. Hence they always get fixated on reliving arguments over tech specs and seem obsessed with mentioning how whatever Sega system was more powerful than the competition at every possible opportunity literally decades after any of these consoles were relevant.
So, it seems they don't like to hear another console vastly outsold their Sega console, or that it had way more games, or that some of those games were more universally acclaimed, or that the games sold more, or that more of those games still appear in all Best Games of All time lists, or that the other console had a better controller, or that there's some areas where the other console is in fact technically more powerful and capable, or be reminded that Sega is basically dead as a console manufacturer, etc, because that sounds a bit like losing again to them. And I think they just need to hear people say their Sega consoles were more powerful because it makes them feel vindicated for choosing them or something, even if they picked the runner up or losing console in the market each and every time they chose Sega.
So that's fine, they can have that: The Saturn was more powerful than the PlayStation and N64.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
I think I get it now: Sega lost in terms of market success in literally every single console generation it ever competed in, both home console and handheld, and that must have been really hard to keep living through for the most loyal Sega fans. OK, I think I understand why it's so important to continue to look for a win somewhere even though Sega hasn't been relevant in the console space for literally decades. So, sure, Saturn is exceptionally more powerful than the PlayStation. I presume it's important to say it was more powerful than N64 too, right. So, sure, it was more powerful than N64 too. You win.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@UtopiaNemo I'm curious, why do you think that specific quote is the particular one Damien plucked and used as the title headline and focus of this little article, and is indeed the impetus behind it?
Initially I thought Damien was posting about an actual Tweet from Jez San, but it apparently came from this over three hour long stream that's mainly chatting about and playing the new Croc remaster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDopDg6XnZ8
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
I mean, what the hell is the assertion or argument here:
"We bitter Saturn fans picked the generation's loser--once again--but, because some dude said it was more powerful in a stream and some of these random technical specs are better, we should have won!"
Well, you didn't. And you'll have to learn to live with that.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@avcrypt The point is none of that tech crap matters decades later.
What mattered was the PlayStation got many more games, most people would say it got the better games ultimately, its games were spectacular for the time, it had the superior controllers for playing those games, it was a massive success for everyone involved, it left all the people who bought it totally satisfied, most people would still choose it over Saturn again, and it made Sony a dominant force in gaming hardware that's still completely relevant today.
It seems very much to me that the completely outdated tech of these decades old consoles is only being brought up constantly now in articles like this by bitter Sega fans who can't get over the fact the PS1 won the generation, just like they can't get over any generation Sega lost apparently. Otherwise why argue about the specs of decades old and completely and utterly outdated machines at all if none of it made a difference in all the ways that mattered and when it mattered when all is and done. It's because some people simply can't deal with the way things went down. They cannot get over it. So they obsess with utterly irrelevant arguments over long-irrelevant numbers on bits of paper.
But Saturn lost and PlayStation won. PlayStation delivered some of the greatest games of the generation and indeed all time. PlayStation became a household brand, while Sega ultimately got knocked out the hardware business and Microsoft took its place. And Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are still dominant today, while Sega is history in the hardware space, and it is what it is.
Regardless of any other claims, maybe Sega should have actually done a better job, because it's now mostly a historical footnote.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@Toohats Cool, but PDS is not showing better graphics with more effects at a higher frame rate on Saturn than the PlayStation that I can see, which is your contention here, right.
Well, you're saying the Saturn is more powerful anyway, so it would be great to at least see some clear examples of this that truly make the difference and do so beyond debate.
And it's still not going to make the vast majority of people care more about the Saturn than PlayStation or change history, which is why rubbish like this about random specs typically comes up decades later--like [insert Sega console] got robbed of its destiny or whatever.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@UtopiaNemo On that note, here's a good one for PS1 imo:
https://youtu.be/5iZckJ44TJc?t=204
Now, I don't know if Saturn could do that, but there isn't any driving game on the system I can think of that looks that good with the same level of draw distance and all the effects and so on at once running at 50-60fps.
And Gran Turismo 2 is another standout there on PS1 imo:
https://youtu.be/ufctTzr1dbE?t=2533
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@UtopiaNemo Yeah, I agree. He's just a bitter troll wasting everyone's time with rubbish that matters not. And the article is partly to blame too for playing to such pointless rubbish. Nothing to see here.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@Toohats Actually, it's very hard to see. I think that's kind of the point, and why certain people have to keep mentioning random specs on paper or posting random tweet quotes rather than showing the actual evidence. Not that any of it matters. And it will still never make the vast majority of people pick Saturn over PlayStation. So maybe time to cope, just love the Saturn in and of itself, and move on.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@KitsuneNight Exactly.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@Toohats And I think we all know why the article even exists in the first place, so the rest of the point becomes relevant: Some dude randomly mentioned Saturn is more powerful, some dude istantly jumped right on that and produced an entire article around it--decades later still bitter much--and basically everyone (the vast majority) will always still pick the PlayStation over the Saturn [and N64] regardless and for very good reasons. Saturn lost, and PlayStation utterly domintated it in every way that actually mattered and always will. Deal with it.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@Toohats And it's irrelevant. It's a pointless fanboy argument that tries to pretend all that matters is some numbers on paper, when that never has been true and never will be true. What is true is that Saturn lost the console war handily. It will never ever be a better choice than PlayStation for the vast majority of gamers. It will never ever be held in higher regard than the PlayStation by the vast majority of gamers and across the entire video games industry in general. It wil never have a bigger games library than PlayStation. It will never have some of the true all-time greats that made the PlayStation so special. Saturn is just not the PlayStation and it never will be. And some people need to grow up and deal with both the loss and that fact.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@KitsuneNight I agree with everything you said there.
Re: Anniversary: 30 Years Ago Today, PlayStation Changed Video Games Forever
The PlayStation is a great example of a console that did pretty much every single thing right. It absolutely deserved all the success and praise it got back in the day. And it still deserves it very much now too. One of the all-time greats of the video games industry for sure.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@Toohats What would be really great is if there was actually a bunch of Saturn games that proved this by doing stuff more impressive than we saw on the PS1, which I just don't think is the case outside of some 2D titles. And let's be honest, I think most people would rather have what they see as a more powerful 3D system than what they see as a more powerful 2D system, whatever the full technical truth under the hood of each may be. The PlayStation delivered, it got the most games by far, a bunch of them all-time greats, sold the most games by far, sold the most consoles by far, had the better controller(s), had the cooler looking hardware (imo), etc. No reasonable person who isn't just bitter about their system of choice not being top dog can seriously backwards rationalise the situation and expect more than that of Sony and PlayStation. The PlayStation was an absolute master class in doing basically everything perfect for its time. And I think some people might need to learn to deal with that just a little bit better. As an N64 guy, I have done that without too much pain.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@Leynos Sure, in terms of the total number of games, the Saturn beats the N64. But I think a few people would argue that nothing on Saturn ever touched the genuinely revolutionary, greatest of all time, and enduring status of games like Super Mario 64, GoldenEye, Ocarina of Time, etc. And there's plenty of other total classics on the N64 too like F-Zero X, Wave Race, Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie, Paper Mario, Diddy Kong Racing, Majora's Mask, Perfect Dark, Sin and Punishment, Smash Bros., Conker's Bad Fur Day, etc. So it's great to have lots of games for sure, but it's also great to have some of the best [exclusive] games ever created on N64 as well. And I mean games that still appear on most Best Games of All Time lists rather than just some games a handful of people think are great personally. Not that Saturn didn't have some greats too, just not many you'll see on most Best Games of All Time lists as I recall. Although Sega Rally on Saturn is absolutely one of my favourite racing games of all time. But let's not try to attack the N64, because it did far more for gaming than Saturn ever did and ever will--and it's not even close.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
@KitsuneNight Exactly.
I think a lot of Sega fans are holding a lot of bitterness from multiple generations of consoles or something, so they get totally fixated these days on how their system's were hard done by and how everyone was wrong about them, as if everyone said they were weak or whatever, which most people actually never really did. But it's all largely completely irrelevant.
Console fans should just be happy with their system of choice if they truly enjoyed it at the time, whatever their system of choice was.
I picked the N64, which got its ass handed to it at the end of the day by PlayStation in many ways, and certainly in terms of the sheer size and breadth and depth of the games library and sales. If given the choice today, I might even pick the PlayStation--I technically did initially and then sold it to get my N64--but I totally loved my N64 and see no need to argue where it was more powerful than the PlayStation to somehow try and sooth the wound of the loss.
I loved my N64, and I can still say both the Saturn and PlayStation were great too, without having to cling to the blinkered belief that some under the hood spec of the N64 proves it was robbed of its deserved victory in that console generation or whatever.
Re: Saturn Was "More Powerful Than PlayStation" Claims Argonaut Founder
Let's say we all accept he's 100% accurate. Well, shame it didn't matter when all is said and done, at least not to the over one hundred million people who picked the PlayStation over the Saturn and were 100% satisfied with that choice. And even now I guarantee you that the vast majority of people would still pick the PlayStation over the Saturn again if they had the choice today. So it still doesn't matter. It simply is what it is. Saturn is clearly a great little console. And the PlayStation is the PlayStation! Nuff said.
Re: "Absolutely Horrid" - Is Nintendo Switch Online's Emulation Really That Bad?
I expect for the vast majority of people this won't be an issue. But, for a minority of really hardcore and basically elitist types, I expect nothing will truly be ideal for them other than playing on real hardware, which, ironically, is a total pain in the *ss for the vast majority of people these days.
Really, while playing on the original consoles [and probably ideally on an old CRT too] is obviously the purest way to play these classic games, almost any other option these days is likely better for most people just wanting to spend a few minutes trying out these games for a bit of fun.
I'm sure most people are perfectly happy playing the likes of NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, etc, games on their Switch systems. And, really, this is the only official way you can do this on one system at this point in time, so it is what it is.
I wonder what these people think of say the SNES Mini and any lag there for example, as I personally think it's frikin' brilliant regardless of any minor lag, and absolutely the most enjoyable actually practical and hassle free way of playing these retro games that I've found in recent times.
Now, if I can go off on a wee tangent and talk about playing original Game Boy and Game Boy Color games for a moment, I think the ModRetro Chromatic looks absolutely brilliant and basically perfect for that purpose.
Re: Super Excidium Event Is "The SNES Game That Reddit Built"
@Honkshot Well, it's clearly just a bit of a fun side project that's been created to hopefully make a few bucks for the charity.
Re: Retail Therapy: Super Game Shack Powers Up With "Level 2" Arcade Coffee Shop And Store
Looks like a cool place.
Re: Super Excidium Event Is "The SNES Game That Reddit Built"
By the way, Time Extension, there should be an obvious link in the article directly to the game's page on some store or whatever so people can actually purchase it and support the charity.
Here, let me: https://megacatstudios.com/pages/super-excidium-event
Re: Super Excidium Event Is "The SNES Game That Reddit Built"
@snk2d4life Yup, basically this.
Re: Super Excidium Event Is "The SNES Game That Reddit Built"
It's funny and frustrating how so many modern indie/homebrew SNES games look like they've been designed and made by school project teams over the course of a few weeks and in extremely restrictive conditions.
I think there's even some slowdown shown here, which is honestly just bonkers with a game this seemingly basic.
It's really not helping dispel all the modern mostly false narratives being peddled everywhere around SNES these days, pushed largely by a group of particular bad actors and disgruntled SNES haters.
Still, it's a new SNES game and looks fun enough for what it is, so I welcome it.
Keep em coming! And let's hope we see even more and even better stuff in the coming weeks, months, and years too.
Edit: By the way, Time Extension, there should be an obvious link in the article directly to the game's page on some store or whatever so people can actually purchase it and support the charity.
Here, let me: https://megacatstudios.com/pages/super-excidium-event
Re: Accusations Of AI Art Deflate Archer Maclean's DropZone 40th Anniversary Announcement
Yeah, all the in-game HD stuff looks phoned in and kinda "Flash" art fugly imo. It's the worst kind of "HD update" for me. But the original pixel art there still looks lovely.
PS. I don't really give a toss if the promo art was created using AI if actually looks good. And it looks pretty good to me at a quick glance. But the in-game HD visuals look meh to me, so if those are done with AI too then I have a problem with that purely because the end result just looks crap in my very humble opinion.
Ultimately, we ain't escaping the inevitable use of AI art in gaming and so on, so people had best learn to cope there. But the least we can ask is that the end result actually looks genuinely good and well put together.
Re: If Nothing Else, SuperSega's Latest "Review" Should Convince You To Keep Your Wallet Shut
Hey, at least it's actually real. But let's be real, dude who made this knew the audience he was playing--and it somewhat worked out for him. That's my hot take on it.
Re: Sega Saturn Finally Gets Its Own Version Of Shenmue (Kinda)
@smoreon Yes, shadows cast by the characters.
I don't even need self-shadowing in my VR games, but basic shadows being cast by the characters should be the minimum at this point imo.
Re: 8BitDo Is Releasing A Retro Mechanical Keyboard To Mark Saturn's 30th Birthday
Very cool. With this and the previous NES one, I'm now really hoping they make a SNES themed one for the upcoming SNES 35th birthday or whatever, in both the [ahem] American style and the lovely Japanese/European style.
Re: Star Fox 64 Is Getting A Fanmade PC Port With High Framerate Support
@truerbluer Yeah, I've played that, but it doesn't quite capture what I'm after and is actually a bit more like Star Fox 64 than the original for me. I just want the original in basically modern output resolution and frame rate with no pop-in.