@Yorumi Yeah I was also always generally of the opinion that the wireless controllers don't have a lag, so I'm not sure what to think. I wonder though why only the VC lags, could it be a software problem? If so, why haven't they patched it yet.
@GraveLordXD: Well you didn't mention you already had the games. One could stack up even four consoles without taking too much space, but I get where you're coming from. Still I would prefer the original over a retro console, but if I had not enough space for the SNES and the NES (which I can't imagine and it's not like I have tons of space either ^^), I would definitely tend to use an emulator (including VC, if there are VC versions of those games).
@Yorumi Yeah I can definitely imagine that, especially after realizing that I had lag on SMW. I still wonder if it's because of the wireless connection (although I didn't think it was possible), but since the Wii U doesn't have wired controllers by default, you're still right, there is a lag. But I can put up with it.
@Yorumi I gotta admit, I just watched the video you posted to @Peppy_Hare and I was barely able to notice the lag in full speed. With 25% speed of course, it was visible. Now I wonder if @Peppy_Hare could be right if you use a CRT and only wired controllers?
Well apart from the lack of certain games, it wouldn't be enough to motivate me to rebuy the old consoles instead of downloading a VC title. I mean yes, after seeing that video, there is a lag, but it's so tiny (although relevant for some games) that I can put up with it if it means I can just play those games as a download title on my Wii U.
I sometimes think about buying a N64 or SNES again (and it wouldn't be the first time that I'd rebuy them), but mostly to play games like ISS Deluxe or ISS64 which aren't available for Wii U.
@Yorumi Thanks for elaborating on that! Now I understand what you mean. And I even think I unknowingly witnessed those issues too, because I had the same problems with flying when I played SMW on VC. I constantly flew up and down although I'm sure on my SNES in the old days I flew smoothly. On VC, I never managed to do that, which confused me at first and made me believe that I'm more rusty than I thought. ^^
@Yorumi I know what you mean and I think it's stupid of those people to think that way. Although some games back then did use cheap tricks to make games harder, that hardly did apply to all games. At least the way I remember it, most games that I played in my childhood were far from being terrible buggy messes. And don't get me wrong, I don't want to discuss about right and wrong, I want to understand. Because obviously you're onto something, I just don't get why I don't notice the lag. I'll try to compare it the next time I have the opportunity, because it just really interests me. So just to understand: You're saying that there is a lag that messes up the players performance (in comparison to the original, like instead of 3 tries, you need 10 tries?) but the game is still beatable?
Anyway, it's interesting how everyone has different preferences regarding emulation. For me, it's more important than anything else combined that the controls feel great (and that's why the VC is superior for my preferences - and because I don't notice the lag or the darkness, of course). After that, the second most important thing for me is a graphical filter that makes the games look less ugly. Because to me, most games from my childhood look ugly today - that's why I'll never get why so many indie games go for the pixel look.
@Yorumi: Ok, that's strange because up until now I never had heard of that issue (not saying it doesn't exist, after reading your and liveswired's posts). I admit, I don't play VC titles regularly on Wii U and yeah, I don't own my old Nintendo systems anymore. But in my understand the lag has to be noticeable without comparison to the original to really have an impact, right? I mean, if the lag is so small that you can only notice it by comparing, it shouldn't make a difference. But you are saying it does make a difference, so I wonder why I didn't have any input lag while playing Wave Race 64, for example, or SMW or the original Mario Kart.
I'll try to focus on it next time I play a VC title though, because now this issue has caught my interest.
And it reminds me of a similar, now-outdated debate regarding input lag with wireless mice and gamepads. A long time ago, many people said they would never play with those because of the input lag. Of course, nowadays everyone plays with a wireless XB360 pad and wireless gaming mice, because there is no relevant lag! But when I read this about the Wii U Gamepad now, I wonder if it's maybe something not every human is biologically able to notice, like your senses are sharper than mine or something. Because I never noticed any lag.
@liveswired Ok first of all, I didn't buy DK64 VC because I think DK64 is a a rather cheap game compared to the other entries of the series (the same goes for MK64). But that's not the point here, of course.
But I can't concurr with all the points you mentioned:
-unoptimised controls: Are you kidding me? I mean, obviously I haven't played all VC games, but let's take Mario 64 VC as an example: I started the game and the controls felt immediately right, everything was exactly where I expected it. I actually found the button layout ingenious. Why? Because every time I wanted to play N64 games on an emulator (for example Ocarina of Time with HD textures, AA and 1080p - so beautiful!), it took me ages to set up the controls, I constantly had to change them and was never happy with them. So in that regard, I think Nintendo really did a great job with the VC controls.
-all games emulated darker: That's actually something that I've read a lot. I never noticed it myself and I even wonder how one is supposed to notice it without comparing with the original (and if you have the original, why would you get the VC version? doesn't make sense to me). Also: Who cares? It doesn't make a difference to me if the game is a bit darker or brighter. It doesn't change the gameplay or the graphics. Just set your TV's brightness higher if it's really annoying you (which again, isn't possible without comparison).
-needless bilinear filter/deflicker blurring over all SNES titles: What?! Are you for real? I love that filter and I'm so grateful that Nintendo included it. Without it, the SNES/GBA titles look terribly edgy, especially on a projector screen (but also on the gamepad). They would be a pain to watch without the filter. A lot of emulators also had these filters but they never looked good, never even came close to the filter of the Wii U.
-Slow loading times: Hadn't noticed any... but if so, it's probably because of the slow Wii U memory or because emulation isn't that simple and can get messy sometimes.
@GraveLordXD: I'm sorry, but that argument sounds nonsensical to me. You're telling me that there are some people who don't like emulators or buying extremely old hardware, but they buy a retro-console which is basically both (an emulator and old hardware combined)? If they don't like emulators, they shouldn't like retro consoles that emulate old games. If they don't like old consoles, they shouldn't buy retro consoles that use old console hardware.
Also, I don't get your point of not wanting to have 4 consoles hooked up to your TV. First of all, this is not a problem at all, you can either use a cheap switch to hook them all up or - which makes sense anyway - just hook them up with a AV-Receiver.
In the end, you can't have everything. You always have to compromise.
Either you buy the old consoles and live/deal with their shortcomings (although I wouldn't know which those would be, just connect them to the TV, play a game and be happy?).
Or you use an emulator and live with that. I don't what the shortcomings of an emulator would be if you have a decent gamepad. On the contrary, an emulator lets you play with better graphics. But using emulators for recent games is not only illegal, but also immoral (in that light, it's great that Nintendo does HD remakes).
Or just use the VC and live with the fact that it has some issues that no one cares about as long as they don't compare them to the original (because if you have the original, you can just play the original!).
Or buy a shitty retro-console and be unhappy forever. I don't know, I'd rather do a GC/N64 mobile mod than buy a retro-console.
@Yorumi: Ok, that sounds more like a hardware defect, because I never noticed any lag whatsoever. Have you tried it on a different Wii U? When I got my Wii U from Amazon WHD, the streaming between console and gamepad was totally screwed up, the image was distorted etc. Anyway, there shouldn't be a noticeable lag, so I'd say it's not normal but a hardware issue...
@Yorumi What's terrible about the Wii U's VC? I actually think it's the best emulator I've ever seen. It has state saves, graphical enhancement and the controls are perfectly mapped. No need to set up the controls like with regular emulators.
Still, if someone isn't happy with emulators, they should buy the old consoles, not a retro-console.
I still don't get why they even make those retro-consoles. Have they never heard of PC's, smartphones and old consoles? You can play all the old games on a PC emulator, a smartphone emulator, the Wii U's virtual console or just buy the old original console for a few bucks on ebay. Why would anyone want such a retro console anyway? I don't get it.
Comments 13
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
I don't see how some old/retro console is supposed to reignite the console wars. This is just NL with another clickbait-y headline...
Re: Random: Street Fighter II's Most Iconic Stages May Have Been Inspired By A Charles Bronson Movie
What's that, Captain Obvious? A game's settings are inspired by other kinds of art? No way! That's absurd!
Re: Feature: The Tragic Story Behind The Man Who Helped Create Tetris
Wow, what an interesting and equally sad story.
Re: Flash Carts Could Be Slowly Killing Your Retro Consoles
I didn't even know these existed.
If you don't want to use your original cartridges, why not just use VC or emulators?
Re: Coleco Chameleon's Future In Doubt Following Claims That SNES Hardware Was Used In Prototype
@Yorumi Yeah I was also always generally of the opinion that the wireless controllers don't have a lag, so I'm not sure what to think. I wonder though why only the VC lags, could it be a software problem? If so, why haven't they patched it yet.
@GraveLordXD: Well you didn't mention you already had the games. One could stack up even four consoles without taking too much space, but I get where you're coming from. Still I would prefer the original over a retro console, but if I had not enough space for the SNES and the NES (which I can't imagine and it's not like I have tons of space either ^^), I would definitely tend to use an emulator (including VC, if there are VC versions of those games).
Re: Coleco Chameleon's Future In Doubt Following Claims That SNES Hardware Was Used In Prototype
@Yorumi Yeah I can definitely imagine that, especially after realizing that I had lag on SMW. I still wonder if it's because of the wireless connection (although I didn't think it was possible), but since the Wii U doesn't have wired controllers by default, you're still right, there is a lag. But I can put up with it.
Re: Coleco Chameleon's Future In Doubt Following Claims That SNES Hardware Was Used In Prototype
@Yorumi I gotta admit, I just watched the video you posted to @Peppy_Hare and I was barely able to notice the lag in full speed. With 25% speed of course, it was visible. Now I wonder if @Peppy_Hare could be right if you use a CRT and only wired controllers?
Well apart from the lack of certain games, it wouldn't be enough to motivate me to rebuy the old consoles instead of downloading a VC title. I mean yes, after seeing that video, there is a lag, but it's so tiny (although relevant for some games) that I can put up with it if it means I can just play those games as a download title on my Wii U.
I sometimes think about buying a N64 or SNES again (and it wouldn't be the first time that I'd rebuy them), but mostly to play games like ISS Deluxe or ISS64 which aren't available for Wii U.
Re: Coleco Chameleon's Future In Doubt Following Claims That SNES Hardware Was Used In Prototype
@Yorumi Thanks for elaborating on that! Now I understand what you mean. And I even think I unknowingly witnessed those issues too, because I had the same problems with flying when I played SMW on VC. I constantly flew up and down although I'm sure on my SNES in the old days I flew smoothly. On VC, I never managed to do that, which confused me at first and made me believe that I'm more rusty than I thought. ^^
Re: Coleco Chameleon's Future In Doubt Following Claims That SNES Hardware Was Used In Prototype
@Yorumi I know what you mean and I think it's stupid of those people to think that way. Although some games back then did use cheap tricks to make games harder, that hardly did apply to all games. At least the way I remember it, most games that I played in my childhood were far from being terrible buggy messes.
And don't get me wrong, I don't want to discuss about right and wrong, I want to understand. Because obviously you're onto something, I just don't get why I don't notice the lag.
I'll try to compare it the next time I have the opportunity, because it just really interests me.
So just to understand: You're saying that there is a lag that messes up the players performance (in comparison to the original, like instead of 3 tries, you need 10 tries?) but the game is still beatable?
Anyway, it's interesting how everyone has different preferences regarding emulation. For me, it's more important than anything else combined that the controls feel great (and that's why the VC is superior for my preferences - and because I don't notice the lag or the darkness, of course). After that, the second most important thing for me is a graphical filter that makes the games look less ugly. Because to me, most games from my childhood look ugly today - that's why I'll never get why so many indie games go for the pixel look.
Re: Coleco Chameleon's Future In Doubt Following Claims That SNES Hardware Was Used In Prototype
@Yorumi: Ok, that's strange because up until now I never had heard of that issue (not saying it doesn't exist, after reading your and liveswired's posts). I admit, I don't play VC titles regularly on Wii U and yeah, I don't own my old Nintendo systems anymore. But in my understand the lag has to be noticeable without comparison to the original to really have an impact, right? I mean, if the lag is so small that you can only notice it by comparing, it shouldn't make a difference. But you are saying it does make a difference, so I wonder why I didn't have any input lag while playing Wave Race 64, for example, or SMW or the original Mario Kart.
I'll try to focus on it next time I play a VC title though, because now this issue has caught my interest.
And it reminds me of a similar, now-outdated debate regarding input lag with wireless mice and gamepads. A long time ago, many people said they would never play with those because of the input lag. Of course, nowadays everyone plays with a wireless XB360 pad and wireless gaming mice, because there is no relevant lag! But when I read this about the Wii U Gamepad now, I wonder if it's maybe something not every human is biologically able to notice, like your senses are sharper than mine or something. Because I never noticed any lag.
@liveswired Ok first of all, I didn't buy DK64 VC because I think DK64 is a a rather cheap game compared to the other entries of the series (the same goes for MK64). But that's not the point here, of course.
But I can't concurr with all the points you mentioned:
-unoptimised controls: Are you kidding me? I mean, obviously I haven't played all VC games, but let's take Mario 64 VC as an example: I started the game and the controls felt immediately right, everything was exactly where I expected it. I actually found the button layout ingenious. Why? Because every time I wanted to play N64 games on an emulator (for example Ocarina of Time with HD textures, AA and 1080p - so beautiful!), it took me ages to set up the controls, I constantly had to change them and was never happy with them. So in that regard, I think Nintendo really did a great job with the VC controls.
-all games emulated darker: That's actually something that I've read a lot. I never noticed it myself and I even wonder how one is supposed to notice it without comparing with the original (and if you have the original, why would you get the VC version? doesn't make sense to me). Also: Who cares? It doesn't make a difference to me if the game is a bit darker or brighter. It doesn't change the gameplay or the graphics. Just set your TV's brightness higher if it's really annoying you (which again, isn't possible without comparison).
-needless bilinear filter/deflicker blurring over all SNES titles: What?! Are you for real? I love that filter and I'm so grateful that Nintendo included it. Without it, the SNES/GBA titles look terribly edgy, especially on a projector screen (but also on the gamepad). They would be a pain to watch without the filter. A lot of emulators also had these filters but they never looked good, never even came close to the filter of the Wii U.
-Slow loading times: Hadn't noticed any... but if so, it's probably because of the slow Wii U memory or because emulation isn't that simple and can get messy sometimes.
@GraveLordXD: I'm sorry, but that argument sounds nonsensical to me. You're telling me that there are some people who don't like emulators or buying extremely old hardware, but they buy a retro-console which is basically both (an emulator and old hardware combined)? If they don't like emulators, they shouldn't like retro consoles that emulate old games. If they don't like old consoles, they shouldn't buy retro consoles that use old console hardware.
Also, I don't get your point of not wanting to have 4 consoles hooked up to your TV. First of all, this is not a problem at all, you can either use a cheap switch to hook them all up or - which makes sense anyway - just hook them up with a AV-Receiver.
In the end, you can't have everything. You always have to compromise.
Either you buy the old consoles and live/deal with their shortcomings (although I wouldn't know which those would be, just connect them to the TV, play a game and be happy?).
Or you use an emulator and live with that. I don't what the shortcomings of an emulator would be if you have a decent gamepad. On the contrary, an emulator lets you play with better graphics. But using emulators for recent games is not only illegal, but also immoral (in that light, it's great that Nintendo does HD remakes).
Or just use the VC and live with the fact that it has some issues that no one cares about as long as they don't compare them to the original (because if you have the original, you can just play the original!).
Or buy a shitty retro-console and be unhappy forever. I don't know, I'd rather do a GC/N64 mobile mod than buy a retro-console.
Re: Coleco Chameleon's Future In Doubt Following Claims That SNES Hardware Was Used In Prototype
@Yorumi: Ok, that sounds more like a hardware defect, because I never noticed any lag whatsoever. Have you tried it on a different Wii U?
When I got my Wii U from Amazon WHD, the streaming between console and gamepad was totally screwed up, the image was distorted etc.
Anyway, there shouldn't be a noticeable lag, so I'd say it's not normal but a hardware issue...
Re: Coleco Chameleon's Future In Doubt Following Claims That SNES Hardware Was Used In Prototype
@Yorumi What's terrible about the Wii U's VC? I actually think it's the best emulator I've ever seen. It has state saves, graphical enhancement and the controls are perfectly mapped. No need to set up the controls like with regular emulators.
Still, if someone isn't happy with emulators, they should buy the old consoles, not a retro-console.
Re: Coleco Chameleon's Future In Doubt Following Claims That SNES Hardware Was Used In Prototype
I still don't get why they even make those retro-consoles.
Have they never heard of PC's, smartphones and old consoles?
You can play all the old games on a PC emulator, a smartphone emulator, the Wii U's virtual console or just buy the old original console for a few bucks on ebay.
Why would anyone want such a retro console anyway? I don't get it.