KitsuneNight

This constant narrative that modern gamers have it "easy"is honestly getting a bit tiresome.

Games these days are broken up in predatory dlc chunks, with micro transactions cost 100 bux or more on top of that .
Have insane system requirements.
Can easily devour 100+ gigs.
Are shipped broken and need massive day one patches to even work
Need so many patches that by the time you finally get to play you are several hours further along.

And are incomplete unless you hork up more money.
And they can yank the game any time they damn well please ( thanks Ubisoft !! )
And that's some how "better and easier " ?

Games might be getting easier and more accessible, to play, the utter garbage around them getting out of hand.

@buchu8oolong
Ah , I see.
I havent even turned my Evercade on in months all that passed me by.
I don't even recall the last time I ran updates on it.

@Masacheez @Bod2019
Well if we are gonna SNK flex-gloat, then I guess I'll add my 2 cents.
While i dont have a MVS arcade cabinet or even an AVs or AES.
I do have a tray loading Neo Geo CD.
An absolute unit of a machine, its bigger then even the original Xbox.
I dont use it often though, but its a cool machine all the same.

@Serpenterror But Blaze has had a console Evercade available for a while now.
Hopefully a clicky Neo Geo style controller is on the table

@buchu8oolong
Update nonsense ?
I havent touched my Everdrive in a while. I've been playing 360 and Nes games.

***** aces.
Cant wait to see the cartridges.
Hopefully the games won't be locked in on hardware like the Namco and Capcom ones.

@Deuteros
The 360 was the last console I was genuinely excited for.
It helped that I got a core console in November 2005.

Somehow I managed to swindle my mom in to getting a Cellphone plan and the 360 came with it.

That was the last time I was an early adopter.

@Deuteros
Konami has been on a decade long suicide march.
Then when high on bathsalts they skinned their own face and are now wearing it as a mask.

@Deuteros
Think its a bit of all of those factors.
The 2009 recession and the pandemic and the mismanagement there sure didn't help either.

But it is what it is.

Also I am a Sega fan.
But Sega had to pull out regardless they were bleeding money in the late 90's had massive debts and a piss poor PR image.
Their situation was untenable.
They only survived because Isao Okawa on his deathbed, forfeit the debt Sega had in loans to him.
Ge also gave the company his entire 700 million dollar fortune, in Sega and CSK stock.
That and them pulling out of the hardware market are the only reasons Sega didn't went the way of Atari.

A zombie brand whose skin is worn by other companies.

@Azuris
Oh for sure Nintendo was between a rock and a hard place.
But they could have handled it better.
In snubbing Sony, they unleashed their fury, and well the rest is history.

And gamers reaped the benefits of all the great games.

@Deuteros
Even worse , they shut down their light bulb manufacturing plant.

That may sound odd but they started off manufacturing light bulbs so Phillips scuppering that is them pretty much admitting its over.

The old Phillips is gone and something inferior took their place.

@turboxray
I can believe that, whether that was their intention all along or just a convenient excuse to dissapear with the money is up for debate.
As is their ineptitude.

@AFourEyedGeek
The ps4 is the second best selling Playstation ever though.
The gap between the ps4 and NX is fairly small.

About a Saturn and Dreamcast worth of difference or so.

I don't really get that fanboy fiefdom.
It kinda mattered when you were young and it was a significant outlay and part of a clique but I like to think that when you get older you out grow that sort of thing.

As long as the games are good and worth playing who cares what platform they are on ?

It's not like consoles these days have any sort of quirks or personalities or weakneses the developers have to work around anymore.
Cause that made them fun, they were all different.

@Deuteros
Sony and Phillips, are the co creators of the CD format.
Nintendo figured they would be well off with the other half of the partnership.

Did that bite them on the ass and then some.
The Playstation was born out of vengeance, fire and fury. ( to be dramatic)
With Nintendo creating their own biggest rival.

Phillips these days is but a shell of their former selves,they don't even do electronics anymore just licence their name out to other companies.
They moved in to medical equipment.

@AJB83
This Tecra would also be a good choice
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/256623176396?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3D73f44fc9ccc54d59ad52abc6fe11d4da%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D176612502451%26itm%3D256623176396%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2332490%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWebV9BertRefreshRankerWithCassiniEmbRecall%26brand%3DToshiba&_trksid=p2332490.c101224.m-1

I just got a soft spot for those chunky Satellite's.
The CDT 4000 was my first computer sometime in 2000 as a hand me down.
I spend way too much time behind that thing.
It could just about run the likes of the Sims 1 and Midtown Madness 2.

@AJB83
So its not just me then, that's always good to know.
Ive found that Overdrivin was the better port and way more playable.

The best way to get older PC games running is to grab yourself a laptop from the time
such as this toshiba laptop
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/176612502451?_skw=toshiba+satellite+laptop&itmmeta=01JE8PHTAVVHA2CKFHJWGZ1C2A&hash=item291eecebb3:g:FPcAAOSwdQ9m-eFs&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKkSKjsEeawK9ihVJ8Z8%2BY8qRAXaH%2FVDRipDlJg8oJRUJtaGqLNR9AwVTC96IpbR6jjJk23ghmUpN%2Fs2nuSnc6y9azOf7azPJURY5ANnIkKVhH9OMAq1AR9y3mGmux38yq7DAxZEoqEQQprZSBUQhHz%2FStfcT4AQRr1YJH7kdvOJxZ4qic4CQptsR22I3dggmh9YbOleWw00%2Ft9NgU0IVMQJwTORyGgYflGeuGy8%2BvLwsUS2Lal3zK0xYo6RZ6t7yPaJxl7SrlHc%2BT58pD5nAXhe31DS7--bmDS1F5zDasPy2Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8Slx5byZA

Or an IBM thinkpad or anything with a Pentium II or Celeron or at most a 500 MHZ PIII.
They are not as cheap as they used to be but way more convenient then a complete retro computer setup

I'm just using the toshiba as a example because That's what i got, and know best.
(a p2 266 mhz CDT 4000 model Its runs NFS 2 with no issues.)

@UtopiaNemo
Bit of a one note joke as far as I am concerned.

And if he is taking the piss out heated argument then he is doing a bit of a poor job of it.

insert the I was only pretending to be retarted meme here

That's how I feel anyway.

For people wondering what the ps1 did and what was so special about it here is an excellent article from VGC explaining the market at the time and the strangle hold Nintendo had in 1994.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/playstation-at-30-the-betrayal-and-revenge-story-of-the-ps1/

The rest as they say is history
Sony transformed video games from a niche medium that was often seen for kids in to a massive mainstream interactive media market all of its own.

Bloody hell he is still at it.
This is beyond sad now.
I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as a fanboy blinkered by "muhstalgia and member berries"
But he is clearly willfully ignorant, and stonewalling anything that doesn't fit his narrative.

Best advice I can give people engaging, him is to block and report for spam, cause this is utterly pointless and sad.

An utter waste of time

@Serpenterror
Big IF there.

@-wc-
That makes sense.
Thanks.

The first NFS i played was 3 somewhere in 2000 or 2001, and well after i played Driver on ps1, and Midtown madness 2 on pc.
So it was a whole lot less impressive at the time, to me.

And i didn't play the 3DO original until 2021, when I got my hands on a 3DO.

Also, the consensus i have seen is that the loading screens is a mask for dumping the roms to system memory and playing that, instead of the actual cart.

@Damo
I had a look at the place where i though I saw that ( ars technica )
This comment specifically
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/11/the-atari-7800-is-a-no-frills-glimpse-into-a-forgotten-gaming-era/?comments=1&comments-page=1#comments
But after squinting at the screenshot there are no save states.

A bare bones no frills emulator box.
It dumps the roms with "loading"
The idea is cool but its more or less the exact same thing as last year's 2600.
Now if they do the Jaguar next year, which can do the same thing, and release new games for it ?
Then things wil get mighty interesting.

Criticisms aside. I wish Sega, Sony and Nintendo took notice of this and did something similar.
New versions of old hardware, that can run the old games, and re releasing old titles as well

Instead of mini consoles.

Off course these releases are also partially to re establish the Atari name, as well as cashing in on nostalgia.
Seems to work better then that VCS thing from a few years ago.

@deVriestron
Cause they are scamming idiots ?

@NewBond
Aye that's the word i was looking for.
It's more "sim"like not in over the top over complicated and hewing close to reality.
But more in that its more laid back and easy to take the cars for a spin if you are so inclined.

The 3DO original and its descendants even its first port are really totally different beasts.
Seeing a remake of the original with modern physics and graphics would be quite spectacular, and well worth playing.
But it wil never happen, and if it did EA being EA will somehow mess it up.

@UtopiaNemo
Something something Tecmo clamps and Sega/or Sonic scrotum.

Ahem to go in the opposite direction.
The port of House of the Dead is shocking.
It's hard to believe that a machine that was capable of putting out VF2, Fighters Megamix, Last Bronx, DOA, and VC 1 and 2.
also produced something that looked more at home on the 32X.

@Serpenterror
"If he is smart"
Let me stop you right there because that's the flaw in your plan.
He hasn't shown himself to be smart.
He wants to be a grifter but lacks the smorts and the charisma to do so.

@cdog555

Well...they have shown to be complete idiots several times over.
Incompetent scamming idiots.

@betterman
Fair enough.
I was just wondering.

@betterman
Care to elaborate ?
I played both and there is a world of difference between the 3DO original and the ps1 port.

@UtopiaNemo
Come to think of it, Dead Or Alive is another game where the Saturn is able to strut its stuff.

@UtopiaNemo
I’d say that Sonic R, Burning Rangers, and Nights could do the 30fps with lighting (and some cool 2D effects), but all of those games they either had abysmal pop-up, or hide it in small corridors with frame drops.

And that's with Sega at the helm.
So if they couldnt even tap in to the Saturns potential, well who else could ?
The Saturn was a 2D beast though and most of its 2D games are better off then the ps1 equivalents.

But the PS1 won for a reason.

Personally I dont care about fanboy fiefdoms and arguments.
As long as the games are good the platform doesnt matter that much to me.

Though i do have a thing for the underdog console.
Such as the Saturn, the 2001 Xbox, the Dreamcast, The Wii U and even the Cube. ( how much that is an underdog is up for debate)

I am aware how contradictory that is though.

@RetroGames

No Sonic R, and Daytona CCE, are the best racing games the Saturn can offer graphically.

The two Wipeout ports are decidedly scruffy looking.
Wipeout 1 was designed specifically for the PS1
The port of Wipeout 2097 however looks quite good.
And it's a very close call.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kg_iFKBSHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrGhDkqXO7E

Wipeout 3 is a cut above though and one of the cleanest smoothest PS1 games out there.

@UK_Kev
Yeah, I got and played, Nissan Overdrivin' GT R.

@UK_Kev
Different from the PS1 and Saturn ports as well.
I specifically looked for a copy of Overdrivin after trying it with a Saroo.
To me its less twitchy and more responsive.

@UtopiaNemo
Yeah pretty much.
If somebody can articulate their points beyond going,
"nu uh i'm right and you are wrong cause i say so", then I'm willing to engage them in conversation.

But I don't feel like banging my head against a wall that repeats the same thing over and over with out backing it up.
Don't feed the trolls and all that.

Still the Saturn is a great console.
I can name several games that look great on the machine, but nothing that really tops the best the PS1 can offer starting in 1998.

I recall Daytona USA CCE, looking great, but it's been a while since I touched that.
Fighters Megamix always looked great to me.
Sega Rally not so much anymore, jagged and pixely, stil plays well even though i suck at it.

@Bod2019

You might be overestimating the "smorts"of the people involved.
They were a wee bit too incompetent for it to be a preconceived planned out scam.

I got the 3DO original.
It's way way different then the ps1 game which is more ...twitchy.
The controls on the ps1 port are really different
I have the Saturn port but the ports and the 3DO game really are different games.

They only share the name.
I also have the Japanese Overdrivin which is another version and that handles differently too.

The 3DO original is a driving game the other are racing games.
The 3DO games has more in common with games like Euro Truck 2.
As in you take your car for a spin, without a care in the world.

I stil play it now and then.

@Toohats
Speaking of pointless
At least you agree that your post is pointless.
Glad we sorted that out.

@Toohats
I'm getting the feeling that any further discourse with you in this subject is pointless.
Since you appear to be unwilling or unable to engage in something other then repeating the same points that prove nothing over and over again.

Just saying that the Saturn is more powerfull doesn't make it so.
Nor does it matter matter to the Saturn in the long run.
It lost, it lost 25 years ago and nothing will change that fact.

I'll let @RetroGames @UtopiaNemo continue this conversation with you, if they are so inclined but i am bailling from this pointless discourse.
It's going nowhere and I don't feel like repeating myself ad nauseum

@UtopiaNemo
I can think of a few games that look spectacular on the Saturn
VF2 first and foremost, its what caused me to buy a Saturn in the first place instead of the stack of ps1 games i wanted to buy back in 1999, with birthday money.

But the problem is that it only has a handfull of games that look spectacular.

@Toohats
"The article is about how the Saturn is the most powerful, that's it. All the chatter about games library, development issues etc is irrelevant."

How exactly is that irrelevant?
What good is a machine being more powerful if the software available doesn't use that power ?
Said power wont be doing it much good then will it ?

But go on then if the Saturn was so powerfull care to show examples other then VF remix and VF2 ?

@Toohats
Irrelevant.
If the games cant use the power whats the point of the power then ?
Homebrew means nothing it's equally irrelevant, especially to the gamers who just want to pick up a Saturn and play it's games with out an ODE Saroo or Pseudo Saturn Kai.

The Playstation is the better choice and was always the better choice, no matter if the Saturn was more powerfull.
Theoretically or otherwise.

@CocktailCabinet
More or less.
What people tend to forget or gloss over is that multi core system and asymmetrical multi threading and all that wasn't the norm back in the day.
That was the realm of hugely expensive workstations and bespoke custom build super computers.
Untill the mid 2000's when Intel coughed up the core duo ( which is almost 20 years old now ...yes really ) and the Xbox 360 and PS3 both were released with multi cores, almost everything was still single core, single thread orientated.

The Saturn was a technical trainwreck, and to far ahead of its time, the PS 1 was clean focused and easy to develop for.
It's no wonder it waked away as the victor.

@Toohats
Yeah okay but what difference does that make now ?
The Saturn lost 24 years ago back when it mattered.
Back in the day the developers didn't have the hindsight and the tools and the experience the homebrew scene has.

They were under pressure to deliver.
It's easy for the homebrew to get to the bottom of the Saturn because they have had 30 years to explore the Saturn's whack architecture.

Outside of 3D games where the Saturn rightfully is a beast, we have seen its 3D potential only a hand full of times, mostly in Vf2.
The Saturns 3D is scruffy and jaggy most of the times.
Which add to its visual identity and charm, bu worked against it back in the day.

And power means nothing
The Gamecube and Xbox were both several magnitudes more powerfull then the PS2
The Xbox was a slightly modified PC
And still the PS2 trounced them easily, despite being the weakest of the three in specs.

The ps2 had it where it counted, the games.
Thats all that matters with consoles, the games that are available on the platform.

( 100% backwards compatibility with the PS1 and being a dvd player when the format took off also didnt hurt)

@RetroGames
Virtua Fighter 2 with it's smooth animation and frame rate,and rock solid 3D is one of the few games that shows what the Saturn was actually capable off

Other then that the Saturns 3D looks decidedly jaggy and scruffy.
Which nowadays is part of its charm but back in the day was a death knell.
Saturn panicked and released the Saturn way too soon.
Daytona played great but looked terrible and Reviewers from the time mostly sided with Ridge Racer for it's looks.
Like in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUeAmPJKxho

Sega never really recovered from that because it made it look like the Saturn couldn't keep up.
And if Sega themselves struggle what chance do other developers have ?

shocked pikaflop.jpeg
To the surprise of nobody, Sega has had enough.
Here is hoping they succeed.

And now these scamming clowns are trying to spin the narrative so they look like the plucky small guy hero going up against the big bad Sega.

@RetroGames

Well yeah, I would choose the Playstation too and I love the Saturn to bits.
But I would choose the PS1 because it has way more games.
It's library is deeper and way more diverse then the Saturns.

Mos ps1 games being cheaper and easier to get then the Saturn's also help.

@Toohats
The homebrew scene has 30 years of hindsight.
The developers on the 90's didn't have that luxury.

Sega practically dumped a Frankenstein of a architecture with 8 different processor in their laps and told them to figure it out.

The Saturn might be more powerfull but if most developers from the time couldn't tap into that power whats the point ?
That design torpedoed the Jaguar too.
It had a over complicated designa nd most developers just leaned on the Moto 68000 cause thats what they knew best.

All the power in the world won't help if the machine is impossible to develop for.
Sadly the Saturn was just that .

Remind me of the Yu Suzuki Quote that VF2 was only using 60% of the Saturns power.

The Violator sculpt is based on a scene from the Violator mini series from 1994.
Written by Alan Moore of all people, and drawn by Bart Sears.
And yes he did indeed have somebodies head stuck on his arm after punching through the bloke's skull

It was a very weird comic.
And a parodySend up of the EXTREEEEEEEEEEMMMEEEEEEE tendencies of 90's comics.

I havent used Nintendo Online in years, so I cant really say how bad the lag is
These days i just use the consoles with a fairly cheap upscaler and don't notice much of anything.
My TV is from 2008 though.
And has a whole array of connections from component, to scart to VGA to RCA jackscomposite cables.

The TV being so old and straddling the era of CRT and HD tv's might help why it performs so well.
Gonna be a sad day when it finally gives up the ghost.

From what I recall Nintndo's emulation has always been bare bones and the absolute bare minimum of getting things going and keeping them running.
Ocarina and or Majora on the Cube flipping out when rumble is active for example.

@RextheSheep
Saw your Street Fighter II video recently, thought it was excellent.
I should watch those super GB vids of yours too, since i recently got one.

@-wc-
Atari were also some of the first.
Sega released the Sega ages line which goes all the way back to the Saturn.

It's true that Mario Allstars is one of the earlier examples but no the first, and that's more of a remake compilation then a straight up compilation.

Nintendo didnt really srart to heavily lean in to their older games untill the GBA with the NES classics line.
Cause its always the sodding NES.

Very brief.
It's 97% logo's and 3% footage.
Hope this wil be released on a cart and not a cd for the Jaguar .
Because err the Jaguar CD is unobtanium.