I think people use lag and slowdown synonymously at times. The Japanese version still had a bit of slowdown on boss fights. This was because the coding on the game wasn't particularly good. I think the Wily Wars version on the Sega Genesis Mini did fix the boss slowdown. But as it's emulation there would always be some lag introduced.
I hope for everybody that gave money or is really excited about this device that they end up getting your unit and you are happy about the unit. That said, I would not pre-order this unit or give them any money until they start shipping units. There are significant red flags that they are out of money and need more to actually manufacture units. And not only have they missed every deadline they've set, they've actually lied about shipping units before. So I think everybody should be really skeptical about this until customers start receiving their orders.
POLYMEGA @polymegaHQ Replying to @Strongwoods Couldn't make it, too busy shipping! 5:45 PM · Jan 7, 2020·Twitter for Androidhttps://twitter.com/polymegahq/status/1214679588678225921
"What a rollercoaster ride the Polymega has been." Yeah, if the rollercoaster had one hill (when announced in 2017 for release in February 2018) and then was one long rollercoaster going down.
Here is a quote from the initial Nintendolife article "For the people who are speculating $300, it won't be nearly that much"
"You may have had a point when listing the emulators/cores, but you forgot one MASSIVELY important factor"
I had listed that it would be interesting to see the youtube videos that would compare existing PC emulation to this device. I'm sure they'll come. It is disappointing though that mentioned in this review is that some games worked in the beta stage but now don't in the final version. The benefit of Analogue is that Kevtris is an employee of Analogue so he spends all his time working on firmware to ensure the highest accuracy. I don't know the arrangement they have here, but they may not get the continual updates that Analogue or other modern systems like Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony where they constantly have people working on bug fixes.
"Again, I must stress that options are good. I wouldn't talk to someone with four kids who was thinking of buying an SUV and tell them to instead buy a two-seater sports car."
I've admitted there are convenience benefits and I wouldn't tell anybody what to do with their money. But I think when you talk about new hardware you compare it to available options which would include available emulators on the PC spectrum which will give a very similar gameplay experience while maybe not doing as well with the UI. I just don't think you can't compare the two even if someone values the UI very highly.
"Polymega will, in the fullness of time, allow you to legally buy games and support the people who own the IP – something straight emulation doesn't offer."
I'll be happy to be wrong if their store actually gets a good selection. But with the price and the retro focus this is going to be really niche. To me I don't know how this could sell more or have a better store than something like the Ouya which I personally found to be very lacking.
"The machine also supports original controllers (via additional cost, admittedly), which emulation boxes and PCs don't."
They can. I use a number of raphnet adapters that allow original controllers on PC and are pretty low lag. They are essentially what the Polymega is doing within their units.
"That's a bit like saying a PS5 / Xbox Series X is just a PC in a smaller case."
They pretty much are at this point, right? I mean there are reasons to buy those systems too. Exclusive games being the primary point since Sony doesn't release games for PC and some multiplatform games like the NHL series by EA don't get released on PC. You'd have to be a PC builder to build a PC that was more powerful than those systems and come out cheaper. So it's cheap performance for people that don't have a powerful PC as those systems compare more to mid to mid-high performance PCs. They also have the reason that would be the same Polymega is that it's a convenient way to play on TVs if you don't want to setup and have your PC attached to a TV.
"As with any wireless pad, latency is an issue when playing wirelessly, but you can plug it into the machine using a Micro-USB lead to reduce this – we weren't able to test this ourselves, but latency with a wired pad is reported to be about 2 to 3 frames"
"While latency didn't feel like an issue to us with USB pads, when using the built-in controller ports on the Element Modules the lag is reduced almost to nothing (a single frame, in fact)."
A little confused with the verbiage from the review. Are you saying using an original controller is in the 2-3 frame lag range and using a USB controller is in the 3-4 frame lag range?
I know there is this negative connotation to emulation boxes which is why you don't like the comparison, especially in light of pi's being so cheap. But it's a cheap PC with optimized UI and emulators. The UI is certainly nice and if you don't have a PC close to a TV there is some utility there. But the price jumps dramatically if you say add SNES, NES, Genesis as most people would want to be at $690.
Here is the listing of emulators that are used:
System Emulator Module
Famicom / NES Mesen EM01
Super Famicom / SNES Mednafen (SNES Faust) EM02
Sega Mega Drive / Genesis Modified Kega Fusion EM03
Sega Mega CD / Sega CD Modified Kega Fusion Base
Sega 32X Modified Kega Fusion EM03
PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16 Mednafen EM04
PC Engine CD / TurboGrafx-CD Mednafen Base
PC Engine SuperGrafx Mednafen EM04
Neo Geo CD Modified MAME Base
Sega Saturn Mednafen Base
Sony PlayStation Mednafen Base
Supposedly Mednafen and Kega Fusion have been tweaked some off the versions that are currently available to PC users. We won't know the extent until there are some detailed comparisons available on youtube.
The hardware is unimpressive. Based on information they gave before, the main CPU is an Intel G4930. This is a celeron class PC below the I3 series that most low end laptops run. So while there may be some benefit to these versions of emulators (reviews pending), most people will own a more powerful PC that could take advantage of other features within the emulators.
It's just all drama with this company and no products. Good luck if you decide to preorder off their site and get charged now for a product that has missed many deadlines.
It's not patents stopping from N64. It's just more powerful than current fpga current chips and more complex. My guess for analogue is Neo Geo then Saturn then PS1 then N64. So maybe N64 in 2025.
Every analogue product has had a "jailbreak" firmware that allows game loading via sd card. I'd assume this would be no different and have no plans to use the cd player to play cd games.
You are thinking about this too hard. The Genesis cartridge and the 32X cart have the same pinout. The reason the Genesis has an extra adapter is for more power. As this is emulation and all the power is in the base unit the 32X and Genesis will come in the same adapter. Similarly I'd guess for the CD/32X games you'd just load the CD onto the harddrive. Then load the 32X game on the harddrive. Then the emulation can interact with the files without needing either adapter in place. Remember the base unit does all the processing. The adapters just give you a way to load games and use original joysticks if you want.
According to analogue the DAC only works with their products. That's unfortunate because I'd be more likely to buy one if it was an all-in-one device.
@doctorhino
That's where this device could be interesting. If it gets a jailbreak then you don't need to buy all those games. Many of the games for the system's we are discussing are costly and getting costlier. A device like the Mega Everdrive Pro (which doesn't work with this) costs $200 but plays every Master System/Genesis/32X/Sega CD game. So even though the upfront hardware is more expensive for say a Mega SG and Mega Everdrive Pro, you could still get more value out of that setup.
Mr. Dream isn't the hardest thing no. It is the video game that I've played with the fastest reaction time and I use it as my personal lag test. And I don't know what your point is. I've never said 3 frames (indicated in this review) was the most noticable lag or that everybody would care. The Polymega looks decent for what it is at a high price. Maybe you don't care about lag, but you can't deny it exists. This article mentions the lag the Polymega introduces. If you really believe this article is inaccurate then bring that up with Damo.
Except for the lag it is very good. If you can beat Mr. Dream on NES mini you are a much better at the game than me. I've never known anybody who can do it and Pat the NES Punk said it's impossible.
21:40 in the video. So I'm certainly not the only person who notices it. If you are immune to it than bravo. But it exists in tests and many youtube videos like the one above reference it and this review mentions 3 frames of lag above. That might not matter to you but to some people it does.
You said you saw no difference in FPGA. So I was explaining that on modern TVs there are big benefits. It wasn't to say you had to be interesting in using a SNES on a modern TV. Just that it's where FPGA shines.
And I meant no disrespect on Tyson. Just that Mr.Dream/Tyson match is the ultimate lag test. Sandman and Machoman can also be difficult on emulation due to lag. If you haven't beaten the game or often don't play those 3 on emulation than you may not notice the difference between CRT and emulation. It won't matter for most of the matches leading up to those 3 because there is enough time to respond and deal with the lag. Those 3 don't give you much time at all so it's very difficult. So please try those 3 on the NES mini and a CRT and tell me that you don't notice the lag.
You must not play punchout alot then. Glass Joe is so easy that the lag doesn't matter. But I tried punchout on the switch and when Tyson started punching I had to start punching because the game and inputs were so misaligned.
Admittedly with computer emulation you can attach a computer via HDMI to a tv and solve the problem. But hooking up original consoles to modern displays is almost impossible without spending alot in scalers. Even if the TV has a composite input the lag is likely to be very high. Like 9-10 frames high. Anybody would notice that. The reason is most retro consoles output 240p while tvs try to interlace it and then de-interlace it just creating major issues. So their are 3 solutions if you are into these games and game alot.
Get systems modded and buy expensive scalers. The cheapest scaler that doesn't add lag is the retrotink 2x which is $130.
Get an FPGA system. They are designed to output the best quality (modded original system) and provide the scaling technology. For $200 a pop they are very good at what they do.
Use emulation. Most people don't prefer this because it isn't lag free and you have to buy additional hardware anyway to interact with original controllers or games. Generally emulation such as the NES mini/SNES mini are close enough for people looking for that original feel but not wanting to spend $200 on FPGA or a scaler solution. But this is $400. So it's not a cheap alternative to the other options. It might be if you are really looking it as an alternative to buying/modding all those other systems but if you are okay with emulation you could use your PC and save $400.
All emulators have a frame buffer. Even the best add at least 1 frame of lag. Then you'll have additional digital lag from your monitor. The best have less than a frame of lag. USB inputs usually 4-5 ms of polling rate. The best setups usually have 2 frames of input lag. Most people won't notice this. Heck I wouldn't even notice this. But... I've never beaten Mike Tyson with 2 frames of lag. And I pulled that off on the RetroUSB AVS with no problem. So if it's a very good setup, it can't be seen or even felt really. But it's still there and can affect your gaming.
Most people won't notice. And I say that as a big FPGA proponent. Most good emulators and FPGA will be cycle accurate (or close enough) and display pretty pixels. To me the biggest benefit of FPGA is lag. To some people they won't notice. But a device like this has 3 frames lag versus 0 on FPGA. Some games the lag doesn't even bother me much. But there are games like Mike Tyson's Punchout that will be impossible to beat on this. And will feel just like the original on FPGA. So some games it matters. And if you like those games the differences will matter.
For FPGA goodness $400 would be a steal. I think the average person is unlikely to invest in all those mods. For the people that would, the accuracy differences and lag are likely to be turnoffs. The biggest issue to me with the price is I can emulate all those systems on a PC. So to me I'd be paying $400 for the software. The UI is certainly well done and premium but that's just too steep for me at this time. If my Saturn starts giving me issues like Damo or they drop in price maybe I'd reconsider. I did buy a snes/nes mini though I have those consoles in rgb connected to my OSSC because I thought there was enough value there to deal with some of the issues of emulation. Just not there yet with this.
I think they were talking total lag at 4 frames in total including the wireless controller. so likely the blutooth controller adds a frame which is standard for bluetooth and the system has a baseline of 3 frames which you'll experience if you use a corded controller.
I'm sure it's really close. But to me if I'm spending $400 I want better accuracy than was shown in the video above for Genesis emulation which in general takes less power than Saturn emulation. So I'd love to see more side by side videos of the unit to discuss timing differences, sound differences, and some of the minor issues that you've noted in your review but aren't highlighted in the video. To me a video review for something like this makes alot more sense than a written review where I can't actually see or hear the differences side by side. That's just me though. I'm likely not the target audience because I'd want much better accuracy then I've seen online. Maybe the Saturn emulator is better, but I wouldn't buy this just for a Saturn as I already have a Saturn attached to an OSSC and am looking at purchasing the Terraonion mode to go with it. So in general it would really have to knock my socks up to go for that over what I have.
I'm not asking for comments to be turned off. Comments sections are for opinions no matter how wild they are. I'm saying if you have a problem with opinions without hands on, then that's really what he was asking for is no comments on pre-release items. And better yet if that's your problem you should probably avoid comments sections in general, because peeps will have opinions.
See my comment above. There are many things Polymega did prior to release to create ill will with their potential customers. The accuracy issues will keep me from buying it and I still struggle with the value of this as anyone with a PC can do what this does for alot cheaper. Supposedly the Saturn core has been tweaked, but until tested my guess is it was tweaked to optimize for the slow CPU that they are utilizing rather than actually offering better emulation than be be obtained on a PC.
So their market appears to be people that aren't focused on great accuracy and also want the convenience of not having to setup multiple emulators themselves. Are these people willing to spend that much? Analogue has proven that people will pay if the accuracy is there. I'm not sure people will pay for almost accuracy there.
I've at least added some comments on topic. The issue is a comment section is for opinions. Some people have negative opinions and some don't. There are accuracy issues with the Polymega as listed in the above review I posted above. This company also has a checkered past by overpromising, showing preview video that wasn't playing on their machine, missing deadlines, and getting in a twitter war with Analogue prior to having a viable product. There are many reasons to be down on this product. Sorry if you don't like it.
The other issue with his comments is that this product is unreleased. So I'd venture a guess that any opinion listed on this comment section doesn't have a hands on opinion. But he wants to focus on a subset of people and call them out. If he has a problem with people posting opinions without a hands on then he should call out everyone who posted and ask Damo to turn off comments.
This box is selling convenience. It's one stop to load all your games/emulators. The UI is slick. It's clear that they spent alot of time trying to make the UI premium to give the overall impression that the total package is premium. That said, all these emulators are available for free on PC. And if you are just interested in playing games it's likely you'll do as good or better on a PC as the polymega is in general a weak spec'd PC. That said we really won't know until more units are in the wild and someone does a side by side comparison to the PC counterparts.
I would have liked a more thorough comparison between actual hardware and the polymega. Also I'd like a comparison of the polymega against the emulators on PC. The below video review does a better job of comparing side by side. The differences won't really bother casual users but will likely bother people that spend alot of time with retrogames.
Well I love it when holier than thou types take over comments sections even though they have nothing to add to the conversation. It's the other half of the reason that most comment sections suck.
Specs always matter. That's why a Switch can't match a PS4 pro or Xbox X in performance. You can only do so much with that CPU. They licensed the emulators which were already built for PC hardware . I could download all those emulators for free and try on my much more powerful computer. Supposedly they tweaked some of the emulators but we won't know the quality improvements until someone sees them side by side. My guess is they are simply optimized for that really low end CPU. But if they did find a true improvement it will probably be patched into the free version at some point since it's an evergreen program.
Big manufacturers have manufacturing issues. Microsoft had the rrod. Nintendo had the Joycon issues, 3DS screen scratching. PS3 had the melting solder points on the original PS3s. Quality manufacturing is not a given.
They've never released a product before. Many companies have issues when they start manufacturing. I'd think we'd have to see how the launch goes before we declare this quality.
It's also not a custom chip. They said it's a 35W Coffee Lake CPU. It looks like the G4930T which is an off the shelf $40 chip and is the lowest performing chip that intel sells. It's performance won't be much different than arm and it will get outperformed by premium arm chips.
They haven't released the snes module yet. $400 base plus $60 for snes module is a steep price to pay for snes emulation. I can't recomend the analogue super nt enough if you want accurate snes emulation that works flawlessly with snes peripherals.
The base unit is a PC with emulators. If you have a PC, pretty sure you can play all of those and a bunch more. At this point they'd be better off selling a controller adapter with some emulators. But then again they keep missing release dates because their emulators aren't working correctly. So you may be better off just searching the internet and seeing what you can find.
Supposedly Kevtris is working an a DAC video converter which would allow his fpga models to output an analogue signal and play games like duck hunt on a crt with no lag.
I'd be shocked if the everdrive worked with it. It hasn't worked with any other emulator box such as the Retron 5. The reason is that an emulator box is typically looking for a ROM to pull into the machine and play itself. The everdrive itself is an FPGA which requires the hardware to interact with it before it provides the specific ROM which is to be played. Software emulation doesn't interact with carts the way real hardware does.
Emulation is okay, but the polymega is emulation. It's laggy and is just like playing on your pc. FPGA interacts with games in real time so it has no inherent lag. Mega SG will be a better experience than emulation because of not having lag. Though it's true that if you only want to dabble in older games you likely wouldn't notice the difference.
I have a genesis hooked to a crt, a genesis/32x/cd attached to my projector and now I'll have this attached to a 4k tv in my bedroom. Nothing wrong with the original systems. That said, this will look better and reduce lag on modern displays unless you pay for an expensive video converter (ossc, framemeister).
I have mine coming Wednesday so I'm pumped. Can't wait for the Game Gear adapter. That was my first system and I can't wait to play it on the big screen in blocky glory.
There is jailbreak firmware for the other analogue hardware devices that allow you to play games off an SD card. It won't be "officially" supported, but I'd be very surprised if it doesn't get that feature.
Now that I've lived through nearly 4 decades, I truly believe there is no better generation than another. It's just how we take what life has to offer and make the best of it. Sure, technology can make things easier and change the way we interact. But what makes life special is the people in our lives and our interactions with them. To that point, somehow my parents managed to find each other, enjoy each other, and make babies in the 70s. I managed to find someone, enjoy them, and make babies in the 00s. And I have little doubt my kids will be able to find someone, enjoy them, and make babies in the future. So maybe things haven't really changed that much.
I think it's pretty disengenous that they were pushing the whole hybrid emulation thing and thats now been dropped. I figured they were overpromising and only wanted fpga cores because they offer a no lag solution. Retroarch does not. Either way, if you want to emulate, you should use your more powerful pc. I know you generally try to be positive. But unlike Nintendo, this company has earned no good will based on their history.
Comments 58
Re: Gallery: Unpacking Retro-Bit's Mega Man: The Wily Wars Collector's Edition
@ShadyGreenleaf
I think people use lag and slowdown synonymously at times. The Japanese version still had a bit of slowdown on boss fights. This was because the coding on the game wasn't particularly good. I think the Wily Wars version on the Sega Genesis Mini did fix the boss slowdown. But as it's emulation there would always be some lag introduced.
Re: Polymega Release "Still On Track" Despite Production Problems
I hope for everybody that gave money or is really excited about this device that they end up getting your unit and you are happy about the unit. That said, I would not pre-order this unit or give them any money until they start shipping units. There are significant red flags that they are out of money and need more to actually manufacture units. And not only have they missed every deadline they've set, they've actually lied about shipping units before. So I think everybody should be really skeptical about this until customers start receiving their orders.
POLYMEGA
@polymegaHQ
Replying to
@Strongwoods
Couldn't make it, too busy shipping!
5:45 PM · Jan 7, 2020·Twitter for Androidhttps://twitter.com/polymegahq/status/1214679588678225921
Re: Polymega Release "Still On Track" Despite Production Problems
"What a rollercoaster ride the Polymega has been." Yeah, if the rollercoaster had one hill (when announced in 2017 for release in February 2018) and then was one long rollercoaster going down.
Here is a quote from the initial Nintendolife article "For the people who are speculating $300, it won't be nearly that much"
Re: Hardware Review: Despite The Delays And Drama, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@ThanosReXXX
"You may have had a point when listing the emulators/cores, but you forgot one MASSIVELY important factor"
I had listed that it would be interesting to see the youtube videos that would compare existing PC emulation to this device. I'm sure they'll come. It is disappointing though that mentioned in this review is that some games worked in the beta stage but now don't in the final version. The benefit of Analogue is that Kevtris is an employee of Analogue so he spends all his time working on firmware to ensure the highest accuracy. I don't know the arrangement they have here, but they may not get the continual updates that Analogue or other modern systems like Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony where they constantly have people working on bug fixes.
Re: Hardware Review: Despite The Delays And Drama, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@Damo
"Again, I must stress that options are good. I wouldn't talk to someone with four kids who was thinking of buying an SUV and tell them to instead buy a two-seater sports car."
I've admitted there are convenience benefits and I wouldn't tell anybody what to do with their money. But I think when you talk about new hardware you compare it to available options which would include available emulators on the PC spectrum which will give a very similar gameplay experience while maybe not doing as well with the UI. I just don't think you can't compare the two even if someone values the UI very highly.
"Polymega will, in the fullness of time, allow you to legally buy games and support the people who own the IP – something straight emulation doesn't offer."
I'll be happy to be wrong if their store actually gets a good selection. But with the price and the retro focus this is going to be really niche. To me I don't know how this could sell more or have a better store than something like the Ouya which I personally found to be very lacking.
Re: Hardware Review: Despite The Delays And Drama, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@Damo
The UI is slick no doubt.
"The machine also supports original controllers (via additional cost, admittedly), which emulation boxes and PCs don't."
They can. I use a number of raphnet adapters that allow original controllers on PC and are pretty low lag. They are essentially what the Polymega is doing within their units.
"That's a bit like saying a PS5 / Xbox Series X is just a PC in a smaller case."
They pretty much are at this point, right? I mean there are reasons to buy those systems too. Exclusive games being the primary point since Sony doesn't release games for PC and some multiplatform games like the NHL series by EA don't get released on PC. You'd have to be a PC builder to build a PC that was more powerful than those systems and come out cheaper. So it's cheap performance for people that don't have a powerful PC as those systems compare more to mid to mid-high performance PCs. They also have the reason that would be the same Polymega is that it's a convenient way to play on TVs if you don't want to setup and have your PC attached to a TV.
Re: Hardware Review: Despite The Delays And Drama, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@Damo
"As with any wireless pad, latency is an issue when playing wirelessly, but you can plug it into the machine using a Micro-USB lead to reduce this – we weren't able to test this ourselves, but latency with a wired pad is reported to be about 2 to 3 frames"
"While latency didn't feel like an issue to us with USB pads, when using the built-in controller ports on the Element Modules the lag is reduced almost to nothing (a single frame, in fact)."
A little confused with the verbiage from the review. Are you saying using an original controller is in the 2-3 frame lag range and using a USB controller is in the 3-4 frame lag range?
Re: Hardware Review: Despite The Delays And Drama, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@ThanosReXXX @Damo
I know there is this negative connotation to emulation boxes which is why you don't like the comparison, especially in light of pi's being so cheap. But it's a cheap PC with optimized UI and emulators. The UI is certainly nice and if you don't have a PC close to a TV there is some utility there. But the price jumps dramatically if you say add SNES, NES, Genesis as most people would want to be at $690.
Here is the listing of emulators that are used:
System Emulator Module
Famicom / NES Mesen EM01
Super Famicom / SNES Mednafen (SNES Faust) EM02
Sega Mega Drive / Genesis Modified Kega Fusion EM03
Sega Mega CD / Sega CD Modified Kega Fusion Base
Sega 32X Modified Kega Fusion EM03
PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16 Mednafen EM04
PC Engine CD / TurboGrafx-CD Mednafen Base
PC Engine SuperGrafx Mednafen EM04
Neo Geo CD Modified MAME Base
Sega Saturn Mednafen Base
Sony PlayStation Mednafen Base
Supposedly Mednafen and Kega Fusion have been tweaked some off the versions that are currently available to PC users. We won't know the extent until there are some detailed comparisons available on youtube.
The hardware is unimpressive. Based on information they gave before, the main CPU is an Intel G4930. This is a celeron class PC below the I3 series that most low end laptops run. So while there may be some benefit to these versions of emulators (reviews pending), most people will own a more powerful PC that could take advantage of other features within the emulators.
Re: Pre-Ordered A Polymega With Walmart? We've Got Bad News For You
It's just all drama with this company and no products. Good luck if you decide to preorder off their site and get charged now for a product that has missed many deadlines.
Re: Analogue's Next FPGA Console Tackles Kanye West's Favourite System: The PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16
@sleepinglion
It's not patents stopping from N64. It's just more powerful than current fpga current chips and more complex. My guess for analogue is Neo Geo then Saturn then PS1 then N64. So maybe N64 in 2025.
Re: Analogue's Next FPGA Console Tackles Kanye West's Favourite System: The PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16
@NinChocolate
It's not cheap, but they do offer a dac for $80 which allows all their consoles to be played lag free on crt.
Re: Analogue's Next FPGA Console Tackles Kanye West's Favourite System: The PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16
@Yorumi
Every analogue product has had a "jailbreak" firmware that allows game loading via sd card. I'd assume this would be no different and have no plans to use the cd player to play cd games.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@doctorhino
You are thinking about this too hard. The Genesis cartridge and the 32X cart have the same pinout. The reason the Genesis has an extra adapter is for more power. As this is emulation and all the power is in the base unit the 32X and Genesis will come in the same adapter. Similarly I'd guess for the CD/32X games you'd just load the CD onto the harddrive. Then load the 32X game on the harddrive. Then the emulation can interact with the files without needing either adapter in place. Remember the base unit does all the processing. The adapters just give you a way to load games and use original joysticks if you want.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@Damo
According to analogue the DAC only works with their products. That's unfortunate because I'd be more likely to buy one if it was an all-in-one device.
@doctorhino
That's where this device could be interesting. If it gets a jailbreak then you don't need to buy all those games. Many of the games for the system's we are discussing are costly and getting costlier. A device like the Mega Everdrive Pro (which doesn't work with this) costs $200 but plays every Master System/Genesis/32X/Sega CD game. So even though the upfront hardware is more expensive for say a Mega SG and Mega Everdrive Pro, you could still get more value out of that setup.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@TG16_IS_BAE
Mr. Dream isn't the hardest thing no. It is the video game that I've played with the fastest reaction time and I use it as my personal lag test. And I don't know what your point is. I've never said 3 frames (indicated in this review) was the most noticable lag or that everybody would care. The Polymega looks decent for what it is at a high price. Maybe you don't care about lag, but you can't deny it exists. This article mentions the lag the Polymega introduces. If you really believe this article is inaccurate then bring that up with Damo.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@TG16_IS_BAE
Except for the lag it is very good. If you can beat Mr. Dream on NES mini you are a much better at the game than me. I've never known anybody who can do it and Pat the NES Punk said it's impossible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9VQJJig-Wo
21:40 in the video. So I'm certainly not the only person who notices it. If you are immune to it than bravo. But it exists in tests and many youtube videos like the one above reference it and this review mentions 3 frames of lag above. That might not matter to you but to some people it does.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@TG16_IS_BAE
You said you saw no difference in FPGA. So I was explaining that on modern TVs there are big benefits. It wasn't to say you had to be interesting in using a SNES on a modern TV. Just that it's where FPGA shines.
And I meant no disrespect on Tyson. Just that Mr.Dream/Tyson match is the ultimate lag test. Sandman and Machoman can also be difficult on emulation due to lag. If you haven't beaten the game or often don't play those 3 on emulation than you may not notice the difference between CRT and emulation. It won't matter for most of the matches leading up to those 3 because there is enough time to respond and deal with the lag. Those 3 don't give you much time at all so it's very difficult. So please try those 3 on the NES mini and a CRT and tell me that you don't notice the lag.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@TG16_IS_BAE
You must not play punchout alot then. Glass Joe is so easy that the lag doesn't matter. But I tried punchout on the switch and when Tyson started punching I had to start punching because the game and inputs were so misaligned.
Admittedly with computer emulation you can attach a computer via HDMI to a tv and solve the problem. But hooking up original consoles to modern displays is almost impossible without spending alot in scalers. Even if the TV has a composite input the lag is likely to be very high. Like 9-10 frames high. Anybody would notice that. The reason is most retro consoles output 240p while tvs try to interlace it and then de-interlace it just creating major issues. So their are 3 solutions if you are into these games and game alot.
Get systems modded and buy expensive scalers. The cheapest scaler that doesn't add lag is the retrotink 2x which is $130.
Get an FPGA system. They are designed to output the best quality (modded original system) and provide the scaling technology. For $200 a pop they are very good at what they do.
Use emulation. Most people don't prefer this because it isn't lag free and you have to buy additional hardware anyway to interact with original controllers or games. Generally emulation such as the NES mini/SNES mini are close enough for people looking for that original feel but not wanting to spend $200 on FPGA or a scaler solution. But this is $400. So it's not a cheap alternative to the other options. It might be if you are really looking it as an alternative to buying/modding all those other systems but if you are okay with emulation you could use your PC and save $400.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@TG16_IS_BAE
All emulators have a frame buffer. Even the best add at least 1 frame of lag. Then you'll have additional digital lag from your monitor. The best have less than a frame of lag. USB inputs usually 4-5 ms of polling rate. The best setups usually have 2 frames of input lag. Most people won't notice this. Heck I wouldn't even notice this. But... I've never beaten Mike Tyson with 2 frames of lag. And I pulled that off on the RetroUSB AVS with no problem. So if it's a very good setup, it can't be seen or even felt really. But it's still there and can affect your gaming.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@TG16_IS_BAE
Most people won't notice. And I say that as a big FPGA proponent. Most good emulators and FPGA will be cycle accurate (or close enough) and display pretty pixels. To me the biggest benefit of FPGA is lag. To some people they won't notice. But a device like this has 3 frames lag versus 0 on FPGA. Some games the lag doesn't even bother me much. But there are games like Mike Tyson's Punchout that will be impossible to beat on this. And will feel just like the original on FPGA. So some games it matters. And if you like those games the differences will matter.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@Yorumi
For FPGA goodness $400 would be a steal. I think the average person is unlikely to invest in all those mods. For the people that would, the accuracy differences and lag are likely to be turnoffs. The biggest issue to me with the price is I can emulate all those systems on a PC. So to me I'd be paying $400 for the software. The UI is certainly well done and premium but that's just too steep for me at this time. If my Saturn starts giving me issues like Damo or they drop in price maybe I'd reconsider. I did buy a snes/nes mini though I have those consoles in rgb connected to my OSSC because I thought there was enough value there to deal with some of the issues of emulation. Just not there yet with this.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@MeowMeowKins
No, I wasn't telling you to buzz off. Sorry if I gave that impression.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@Yorumi
I think they were talking total lag at 4 frames in total including the wireless controller. so likely the blutooth controller adds a frame which is standard for bluetooth and the system has a baseline of 3 frames which you'll experience if you use a corded controller.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@Damo
I'm sure it's really close. But to me if I'm spending $400 I want better accuracy than was shown in the video above for Genesis emulation which in general takes less power than Saturn emulation. So I'd love to see more side by side videos of the unit to discuss timing differences, sound differences, and some of the minor issues that you've noted in your review but aren't highlighted in the video. To me a video review for something like this makes alot more sense than a written review where I can't actually see or hear the differences side by side. That's just me though. I'm likely not the target audience because I'd want much better accuracy then I've seen online. Maybe the Saturn emulator is better, but I wouldn't buy this just for a Saturn as I already have a Saturn attached to an OSSC and am looking at purchasing the Terraonion mode to go with it. So in general it would really have to knock my socks up to go for that over what I have.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@MeowMeowKins
I'm not asking for comments to be turned off. Comments sections are for opinions no matter how wild they are. I'm saying if you have a problem with opinions without hands on, then that's really what he was asking for is no comments on pre-release items. And better yet if that's your problem you should probably avoid comments sections in general, because peeps will have opinions.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@ThanosReXXX
See my comment above. There are many things Polymega did prior to release to create ill will with their potential customers. The accuracy issues will keep me from buying it and I still struggle with the value of this as anyone with a PC can do what this does for alot cheaper. Supposedly the Saturn core has been tweaked, but until tested my guess is it was tweaked to optimize for the slow CPU that they are utilizing rather than actually offering better emulation than be be obtained on a PC.
So their market appears to be people that aren't focused on great accuracy and also want the convenience of not having to setup multiple emulators themselves. Are these people willing to spend that much? Analogue has proven that people will pay if the accuracy is there. I'm not sure people will pay for almost accuracy there.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@MeowMeowKins
I've at least added some comments on topic. The issue is a comment section is for opinions. Some people have negative opinions and some don't. There are accuracy issues with the Polymega as listed in the above review I posted above. This company also has a checkered past by overpromising, showing preview video that wasn't playing on their machine, missing deadlines, and getting in a twitter war with Analogue prior to having a viable product. There are many reasons to be down on this product. Sorry if you don't like it.
The other issue with his comments is that this product is unreleased. So I'd venture a guess that any opinion listed on this comment section doesn't have a hands on opinion. But he wants to focus on a subset of people and call them out. If he has a problem with people posting opinions without a hands on then he should call out everyone who posted and ask Damo to turn off comments.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@TG16_IS_BAE
This box is selling convenience. It's one stop to load all your games/emulators. The UI is slick. It's clear that they spent alot of time trying to make the UI premium to give the overall impression that the total package is premium. That said, all these emulators are available for free on PC. And if you are just interested in playing games it's likely you'll do as good or better on a PC as the polymega is in general a weak spec'd PC. That said we really won't know until more units are in the wild and someone does a side by side comparison to the PC counterparts.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@denis09
I would have liked a more thorough comparison between actual hardware and the polymega. Also I'd like a comparison of the polymega against the emulators on PC. The below video review does a better job of comparing side by side. The differences won't really bother casual users but will likely bother people that spend alot of time with retrogames.
https://youtu.be/493PKDeDzsE
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@ThanosReXXX
Well I love it when holier than thou types take over comments sections even though they have nothing to add to the conversation. It's the other half of the reason that most comment sections suck.
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
@ThanosReXXX
In my experience, public shaming only brings out more trolls. So let's stay on topic eh?
Re: Hardware Review: Believe The Hype, Polymega Is The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Machine
My hype died 3 years ago when they couldn't meet any deadlines and completely changed what this is.
Re: Site News: We've Got A Polymega, Ask Us Anything
@KevvyLava
Specs always matter. That's why a Switch can't match a PS4 pro or Xbox X in performance. You can only do so much with that CPU. They licensed the emulators which were already built for PC hardware . I could download all those emulators for free and try on my much more powerful computer. Supposedly they tweaked some of the emulators but we won't know the quality improvements until someone sees them side by side. My guess is they are simply optimized for that really low end CPU. But if they did find a true improvement it will probably be patched into the free version at some point since it's an evergreen program.
Big manufacturers have manufacturing issues. Microsoft had the rrod. Nintendo had the Joycon issues, 3DS screen scratching. PS3 had the melting solder points on the original PS3s. Quality manufacturing is not a given.
Re: Site News: We've Got A Polymega, Ask Us Anything
@KevvyLava
They've never released a product before. Many companies have issues when they start manufacturing. I'd think we'd have to see how the launch goes before we declare this quality.
It's also not a custom chip. They said it's a 35W Coffee Lake CPU. It looks like the G4930T which is an off the shelf $40 chip and is the lowest performing chip that intel sells. It's performance won't be much different than arm and it will get outperformed by premium arm chips.
Re: Site News: We've Got A Polymega, Ask Us Anything
@GamerFromJump
They haven't released the snes module yet. $400 base plus $60 for snes module is a steep price to pay for snes emulation. I can't recomend the analogue super nt enough if you want accurate snes emulation that works flawlessly with snes peripherals.
Re: Site News: We've Got A Polymega, Ask Us Anything
@PortuGuy
Probably not powerful enough to run GCN emulation. This is essentially a really cheap PC running emulation.
Re: You Could Get Your Hands On A Polymega Early Thanks To Its Upcoming Beta Test
@ramu-chan @mikegamer
The polymega has the equivilent of a celeron g4900. This is a low powered pc and there is no way it will provide accurate saturn emulation.
Re: You Could Get Your Hands On A Polymega Early Thanks To Its Upcoming Beta Test
Early? Wasn't the original release date 3 years ago?
Re: Polymega Slips Into Early 2020, But It's Bringing Some Cool Stuff With It
Oh, no way they miss their 25th deadline and take additional promised features away.
Re: Polymega TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine Module Includes Five Pack-In Games
@BionicDodo
The base unit is a PC with emulators. If you have a PC, pretty sure you can play all of those and a bunch more. At this point they'd be better off selling a controller adapter with some emulators. But then again they keep missing release dates because their emulators aren't working correctly. So you may be better off just searching the internet and seeing what you can find.
Re: Hands On: Polymega Is Shaping Up To Be The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Emulation Box
@andykara2003
Supposedly Kevtris is working an a DAC video converter which would allow his fpga models to output an analogue signal and play games like duck hunt on a crt with no lag.
Re: Hands On: Polymega Is Shaping Up To Be The Ultimate All-In-One Retro Emulation Box
@ThanosReXXX
I'd be shocked if the everdrive worked with it. It hasn't worked with any other emulator box such as the Retron 5. The reason is that an emulator box is typically looking for a ROM to pull into the machine and play itself. The everdrive itself is an FPGA which requires the hardware to interact with it before it provides the specific ROM which is to be played. Software emulation doesn't interact with carts the way real hardware does.
Re: Hardware Review: Analogue Mega Sg: Forget The Mega Drive Mini, This Is The Real Deal
@TurboTEF
Emulation is okay, but the polymega is emulation. It's laggy and is just like playing on your pc. FPGA interacts with games in real time so it has no inherent lag. Mega SG will be a better experience than emulation because of not having lag. Though it's true that if you only want to dabble in older games you likely wouldn't notice the difference.
Re: Hardware Review: Analogue Mega Sg: Forget The Mega Drive Mini, This Is The Real Deal
@EmmatheBest
I have a genesis hooked to a crt, a genesis/32x/cd attached to my projector and now I'll have this attached to a 4k tv in my bedroom. Nothing wrong with the original systems. That said, this will look better and reduce lag on modern displays unless you pay for an expensive video converter (ossc, framemeister).
Re: Hardware Review: Analogue Mega Sg: Forget The Mega Drive Mini, This Is The Real Deal
@TurboTEF
Mega everdrive
Re: Hardware Review: Analogue Mega Sg: Forget The Mega Drive Mini, This Is The Real Deal
I have mine coming Wednesday so I'm pumped. Can't wait for the Game Gear adapter. That was my first system and I can't wait to play it on the big screen in blocky glory.
Re: Analogue Mega Sg To Feature Unreleased Sega Genesis/Mega Drive Game
@ramu-chan
There is jailbreak firmware for the other analogue hardware devices that allow you to play games off an SD card. It won't be "officially" supported, but I'd be very surprised if it doesn't get that feature.
Re: Polymega Answers Critics With 25 Minutes Of Sega Saturn Gameplay Footage
@Damo
Maybe a subtle point, but it can emulate a bunch of consoles pretty much like any modern PC.
Re: Polymega's Grand Vision For The Ultimate Retro System Includes A Virtual Console Successor
@EightBitMan
Now that I've lived through nearly 4 decades, I truly believe there is no better generation than another. It's just how we take what life has to offer and make the best of it. Sure, technology can make things easier and change the way we interact. But what makes life special is the people in our lives and our interactions with them. To that point, somehow my parents managed to find each other, enjoy each other, and make babies in the 70s. I managed to find someone, enjoy them, and make babies in the 00s. And I have little doubt my kids will be able to find someone, enjoy them, and make babies in the future. So maybe things haven't really changed that much.
Re: Polymega's Grand Vision For The Ultimate Retro System Includes A Virtual Console Successor
@ThanosReXXX
I think it's pretty disengenous that they were pushing the whole hybrid emulation thing and thats now been dropped. I figured they were overpromising and only wanted fpga cores because they offer a no lag solution. Retroarch does not. Either way, if you want to emulate, you should use your more powerful pc. I know you generally try to be positive. But unlike Nintendo, this company has earned no good will based on their history.