@SmartNickname It's quite simple to backlight a GB as well. Though, there is something to be said for experience games on the original hardware as it was originally designed. I personally enjoy old games, even some that are "bad" or ran on "bad" hardware, if for nothing more than experiencing a history that interests me.
@Heavyarms55 I agree with you. By far my most anticipated system, and I was actively trying to get my pre-orders (I wanted 2) in as soon as the site went live, and still couldn't. No way I'm paying scalpers though. Was really hoping this announcement would bring with it a second pre-order batch for the pocket, even more so now that it support PC Engine.
@Reprise I think the biggest benefit is that you can actually by one. Since they stubbornly refuse to do any sort of waiting list/pre-order/backorder, actually getting an order in for a GDemu. I finally did get one, and overall I am very happy, but this seems easier to come by and has some features GDemu lacks.
@nintendoknife Oh, he's certainly not faultless =) I gave up on ever buying another GDEmu solely because of his terrible attitude and refusal to do any sort of pre-order/back-order/waiting list like any number of other small projects I have supported have done, because that simply "Doesn't work" and we "Don't actually know what you're asking for"... so yeah, his condescension gets old quick.
Still, regarding knockoff - I see where you are coming from now. I would still call it a knockoff, just a high quality knockoff. Knockoffs have a bad reputation because they typically are terrible, but personally, I don't think something has to be bad to consider it a "knockoff". Either way, I think we're on the same page now.
@nintendoknife It's not harsh, the fact that is uses the same board is what makes it a knockoff. If anything, it's not harsh enough. The Chinese companies blatantly stole the GDEmu design, which is a small one man project, and are selling it as their own. I'm not judging anyone that buys the knockoff, since the real ones are so hard to come by, but there's no denying that they stole his IP and repackaged it as their own product.
@carlos82 Not saying it is a bad purchase by any means. I own their AES and PC Engine carts. The Neo SD AES is ridiculously expensive, but as you said, it gave me access to a previously inaccessibly library of games. I own a GDEmu for my Dreamcast, so this would just be for a Sega Saturn (Which I don't actually own yet) - so it would be a pretty big investment for me. I am still considering it, but now isn't really a good time for me to be dropping $300-$400 on a whim. Based on your avatar, maybe you're the one to convince me to finally get into the Saturn's library =P
@somebread Yes - but the big issue is those GDEmu is ridiculously hard to get your hands on, especially if you don't live in the same time zone, since he doesn't have a wait list/pre-orders. There are knockoffs available, but the genuine GDEmu is still very hard to come by. I'm tempted by this for that reason, but the price is just too much for me.
I've said it before, but at least a fundamental understanding of electronics is almost required now for retro gaming. It's saved my neck I don't know how many times, and breathed new life into old consoles. It's also easy to pick up extremely cheap consoles in need of simple repairs if you're not afraid of a bit of small parts soldering.
EDIT: It also opens up the possibility of cheap, non-destructive RGB mods to bring out the best of your old consoles, rather than paying tons of money for someone else to do it for you. Despite what most seem to think, it's not overly difficult to learn either.
@Beermonkey Unfortunately, that is extremely common with many consoles of that era, especially Sega. I've recapped countless GameGear, Nomads, and PC Engine GT/LTs.
@Synthatron_Prime Thanks. I will also give props to @Atariboy for that - it's not very common for folks to remain civil when calling out misinformation, so thanks for that.
@Atariboy @Synthatron_Prime I'm big enough to admit when I've made a mistake. Although, it is a bit more embarrassing when it is something this factually incorrect =) Even more so since I've worked as a developer for years now, and have been involved with electronics projects as a hobbyist for as long as I can remember. For whatever reason, I jumped to thinking this was an ARM based SoC running software emulation, not NOAC type device. You are absolutely correct - this is a hardware based ASIC implementation, my apologies for being the one to spread misleading information. I'll leave my original post, but update it to point to your explanation.
@BulbasaurusRex Yes, you can, people absolutely do. That was the one point of my original post that I will still stand by - The term emulation is still used in many ways. For example, an FPGA (And similarly, this SoC) can be said to emulate the target system in hardware. Another misconception with emulation is that software emulation is inherently worse than a hardware implementation. Either can be extremely accurate depending on the implementation - like the Higan software emulator or Kevtris/Analogue Super NT, but both can be highly inaccurate as well, like the many clone devices or poorly written software emulators.
@Atariboy Which is emulation. That's how the <insert game console> on a chip works. The hardware does not exist to run the games directly, and most, if not all, of the system's original features are implemented in software. Additionally, whether an Everdrive works on has no relevance as to whether or not something is emulated - you can use physical carts/discs on most PC emulators as well. Admittedly, the word clone and emulation can both be used to refer to many things, but this is not a hardware clone in the same way that something like the Analogue Mega SG clones the original hardware in FPGA, or how Cyrix cloned Intel processor architecture in the 90s.
@Balta666 I think you may have missed my intended point. I'm the one that originally pointed out that many people equate morality to legality - which I clearly do not. I even said it is and should be illegal to download ROMs. I don't disagree with anything you said.
@Medic_alert same to you - great talk, always pleasant when people can remain civil in a relatively contentious topic.
@Medic_alert First, let me state I agree with you - downloading ROMs is clearly illegal and my personal morality should have nothing to do with it. I just know from past experience that it always seems to get brought up, and thought I would address it up front, that legality is not the same as morality. So glad we can agree there
Second, I'll also agree that the law is quite fuzzy on the subject. However, the precedent has been set - you can use legally obtained games on other hardware via emulation, typically even when it is explicitly forbidden by a company's EULA. Company policy does not trump law. Of course, this differs depending on where you life, but generally speaking you are in the clear using your own software on other hardware via emulation. It's also a very different scenario from attempting to re-release previously licensed software, as that is an agreement between two parties for commercial distribution/sale of goods. We're talking about personal use of a legally obtain video game that you already own.
At the end of the day, it actually seems like we agree more than not. I don't think anyone has a "right" to pirate any software just because a company chose not to release it. If I could wave a magic wand and eliminate all piracy, I would. But since I can't, and I know I support the game company's by purchasing their games anyway, I have no personal issue downloading and playing roms that I already own.
@Medic_alert There's a difference between making excuses for illegal behavior, and describing the reasons that contribute to illegal behavior. You can certainly describe the factors that drive folks to piracy without condoning it.
Separate from that topic, there's also a difference between legality and morality, and I've got no moral qualms with having ROMs of many of my favorite Nintendo games on a flash cart, especially given that I own them many times over and would likely purchase them again on Switch when given an opportunity. Piracy is a form a theft, for sure, but it is also not the same as stealing physical goods. In my scenario - which is still completely illegal - there is absolutely no harm done to Nintendo in any way. Obviously that's not the case for many (most?) people, and piracy can lead to extreme harm, which is why I think it should be illegal. But that doesn't mean I'm always morally opposed in all cases, either - especially for titles you legally own.
EDIT: @Medic_alert, sorry, but your last statement in your response to @Trajan is incorrect. Emulation has been tried and proven time and again as legal. It is perfectly legal to play your own copy - be it an archival copy, or original copy - on other devices than the one it was originally intended. The archival law written for computer software is certainly flimsy for sure - and depending on where you live, you may or may not be able to legally make backup copies. But assuming you have a legal copy (Backup or original) you can certainly use it on other devices.
@Damo I'm not disagreeing with you (Post #10), but if you're going to use an XRGB Mini/OSSC for multiple systems - which, I assume, most would - the cost becomes quite a bit more palatable. This is a great option for those nostalgic for a specific console, but the cost would quickly add up if you're looking to add several of these to your retro-system collection.
Personally, I'm all for more options. I've since sold my XRGB Mini and moved to a CRT, but I also have a beharbros adapter for my dreamcast, as well as an Analogue NT/Super NT, so I definitely understand the appear of a simple HDMI out solution.
@embison As a couple of us had previously mentioned, some definitely would prefer the more authentic experience of playing on a CRT, and I do still play that way whenever I can. Sometimes life gets in the way though, and it's just easier/more convenient to play on a modern TV.
These systems provide an extremely accurate representation of the original hardware, with the modern conveniences of wireless controllers and HDMI out. If you are a 100% purist, then I guess this wouldn't be for you - but there isn't really anything comparatively accurate on the market, HDMI or not. Personally, I do really wish that these systems retained analog out as well, like the original Analogue NT. That way you have the choice of using it on a CRT or an HDTV, and as life circumstances change, swap between the two as needed.
As for simply buying a genesis, that's an option. That will become more difficult as time goes on. CRTs are becoming extremely expensive and difficult to come by. It is also very common for systems of that era to require complete capacitor replacements. You're looking at expensive mods if you want region free, Genesis/MasterDrive/GG. You lose the ability to dump your carts and play from SD (Unofficially). If you plan on using your original console on a modern TV anyway, quality will be much lower than this, or require an expensive upscaler like an OSSC or XRGB Mini, which are expensive and introduce additional latency.
So basically... this is a simple to use, extremely accurate, high quality product with an admittedly niche audience. If you're looking for a comparatively accurate experience, and you don't already have the equipment (CRT, upscaler) or space for a dedicated retro gaming area, this could end up being quite a bit cheaper, more convenient, and produce higher quality image/sound.
@shani Click-baity? It's clearly just poking fun at the great console war of the 16-bit era, given that Analogue now produces a Genesis and a SNES console. I think it's a given that they don't genuinely think a Sega Genesis is literally going to reignite a massive console war. Analogue's homepage is also a head to head image of the Super NT and the Mega SG with the caption "Console wars are back"... so there's that.
@FlameRunnerFast You say it as if it would be a bad thing, but that's exactly what they did. I've followed Kevin's work for quite a while - before he started doing work with Analogue on the NT. He was in an interview talking about the Super NT and how he built custom hardware to simultaneously run his FPGA chips in parallel with the original chips while analyzing both in order to verify that the FPGA is functioning identically to the original chips. If anyone else were to claim a perfect replication of the original hardware, I'd have my doubts, but Kevin is a wizard.
@GravyThief I don't blame you. I had a bit of spare cash at the time, but if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't buy the NT Mini again simply because it's so expensive and I just don't enjoy the games as much as the SNES library. I don't regret buying it, but life changes and I just wouldn't be willing to drop $400 on an NES anymore. No regrets buying the Super-NT, though, and I'm all over this as soon as I get their store page to load...
@Axlroselm If history holds true, the official response will be no roms supported via SD card, followed by an anonymous patch the day after launch that enables it. Both the NT Mini and Super NT can load ROMs from SD. If it's a deal breaker for you, I'd suggest waiting until the device is released just to make sure that this also gets the firmware jailbreak treatment.
@ShadJV That's where your own "Legally dumped" roms come into play =) That was code for piracy.
@Ryno Still not yet. I've checked every 30 minutes or so and the site's been down. Rotating through a bunch of different HTTP errors, ranging from not found, not authorized, and currently no response.
@GravyThief I'm in the exact same boat as you, not getting as much time as I would like to play my original consoles on my CRT led me to give Analogue a shot initially, and I've since been hooked. Regarding the Mega Drive, I used both the NT-Mini and my Super-NT with an EverDrive-N8 and SD2SNES respectively with no issues, so I would expect the same here.
I also know that with a firmware update, you could play directly from SD. In the case of the NES NT-Mini, Kevtris stated that it supported more mappers and should actually have higher compatibility than flashcarts. I don't know if the same was true for Super-NT, but I would imagine the compatibility would be great there as well.
@mikegamer That's not entirely accurate, and there's a bit of a mixup in the terms being used. It's not software emulation, but an FPGA does not simulate the hardware. It emulates the original hardware, in its own hardware. The issue is, 99% of the people that hear "Emulation" immediately jump to software emulation. Emulation historically referred to a combination of hardware/software emulation, and a simulation is purely software based. Of the two terms, simulation would be the least accurate reproduction method. So while I get why they are avoiding the term "Emulation" to avoid confusion with running a software emulator, saying that the FPGA emulates the original hardware is still accurate.
@ShadJV Correct. Either use your original carts, or your own legally dumped ROMs, which is what I am sure everyone will do =P
@HobbitGamer I think the price tag is simply a result of the insane amount of research and development work needed to replicate the systems in an FPGA implementation, coupled with the relatively small market for such a device.
@Jimgamer8 I would literally buy every single handheld system they put out =P I have a PC engine GT that I never use (Battery hog/awful screen) and I briefly had an LT that I purchased broken for $600 and repaired, but ultimately decided not to keep once I realized I could sell it for $1500. Having a quality portable to play that library on would be a Godsend for me. For whatever reason, I've always favored portables over consoles. Until then, my Core Grafx will suffice.
@Jimgamer8 If they re-released Wonderswan and Neo Geo Pocket Color with backlit screens, I'd buy both day one. I have a regular Wonderswan and NGPC, along with one of each that I modded with a front-light screen. While that's acceptable in the absence of any other solution, it's still pretty far from ideal.
@nesrocks As @Agent721 said, sound has been perfect so far. If I recall correctly (I didn't use the feature) one of the selling points was that the Super NT could play SNES sound files, so you could use it as a retro music player. I would expect 100% accuracy from the Sega console as well, since they are once again fully recreating system hardware in the FPGA.
I'm sure this is also the reason we did not see new cores released for the Super NT, like we did with the NES NT Mini. Considering the Super NT/Mega SG are running on the same FPGA, they definitely could have released a new core to allow Sega games to run on the Super NT. It would be pretty much exact concept Kevtris was working on since before Analogue with his Zimba 3000 FPGA console. It also ran on the same FPGA. Of course, this approach makes way more sense from a business perspective, but I can't help but want an all in one FPGA console for all 16-bit consoles. Hopefully someday that product because a reality. Because I haven't given them enough money just yet.
So excited. I know they are expensive, but the Analogue products are simply amazing. Excellent quality, excellent accuracy, convenience of playing wirelessly & on modern TV's while my originals nap happily in their storage cases. I'd have already pre-ordered mine if their Store page was working properly...
@SethNintendo This is really odd to me, too. How is it that even Nintendo, who perfected the D-Pad 30 years ago, still manages to screw up D-Pads today?
@jbrodack I won't disagree, I think the Neo Geo X made a better starting point. That may be because I'm strongly biased towards portables, but who knows. I know you can switch the aspect ratio, but using only a fraction of the screen and playing with black boarders really bothers me, so that may be another reason why I wasn't as enamored with the Neo Geo X.
As for arcade1up, I had never heard of them before now, so thanks for the info. That does look pretty cool - getting a full blown arcade cabinet for $300 is crazy. I'm pretty worried about the build quality, but then again, at that price, it would be pretty hard to complain. Could definitely use that as a starting point for your own MAME build, rather than building/purchasing a custom cabinet for much more.
@jbrodack That was my main problem with it. It was a decent device, I suppose, but the emulation wasn't great, and the screen's aspect ratio was definitely a poor design choice given the cost of the device. It was just too expensive for a decent device. At that price, it needed to be outstanding, and in my opinion, it just wasn't. As a collector, and especially as a collector of portable devices, I'm glad to have one, but I wouldn't have recommended it for most people.
@NEStalgia I'm a PC/Nintendo only sort of a guy. Somehow, I've rationalized digital only on PC. I don't want to get into it that XD That's great for XBone/PS4 owners though. Hopefully Nintendo will follow suit someday, and if we can install from physical media, even better.
EDIT: Meme? Of course Melee is the best Smash ever =P
@bimmy-lee We're getting old... I have more games, and play them less, than I ever have =/ Like you, I probably only got a few games a year. Maybe between 3-5. Most of my original system libraries were about 15-20 games by the end of their life cycle. It helped me truly value, and love the gaming experiences I had, though. It also made going over to a friends house and sharing/trading temporarily quite enjoyable as well.
My best friend was making fun of me the other day with an imaginary conversation "So, you play a lot of video games? ... Oh no, I don't play them. I just collect them"
@NEStalgia Installing games from a cart would be my dream.
EDIT: My favorite part about that dream, is that so many people act like it's completely impossible and that we haven't been able to do the same thing since the 80's...
@Ralizah I aggree with you, despite being a retail wherever possible type of guy, I assume I would play multiplayer games more often if not for cart switching.
If the ability to backup/restore games from local media was handled properly, I'd have no real issues going digital only. At least then I could download my software, make a backup storage copy of it somewhere, and not have to worry about authentication/download servers going offline in the future. Until then, I'll stick to predominately retail, I suppose.
I was really interested in this strictly due to nostalgia and was close to hopping on board a couple times. Really glad I didn't, and I genuinely hope that folks that want their money back get it back... and then the company tanks. Truly is a despicable response to The Register's article.
@Jop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari It's not that same Atari, and it definitely isn't the same Atari that created the original VCS. Read throught he acquisitions part of the wiki... it's a bit confusing/convoluted.
@Ralizah Technically, you're still supposed to be paying use tax on those items. Purchasing online isn't suppose to be a way around State sales tax, it's just what everyone does.
@foobarbaz I won't say you are wrong, there's a lot of people that feel as you do, but there is definitely a difference between emulation and original hardware. Especially if you have a CRT for retro stuff. I understand that's a niche audience within an already niche retro audience. I prefer to play on original hardware where possible, but I also still appreciate and make use of emulation - especially to play home console games on portable devices, like the GPD Win or my 3DS. I've even got a few re-releases on my Switch. So emulation is an awesome technology/alternative, but it's not the same, either.
I could be wrong, but I would hope my kids would enjoy my collection someday. I don't plan on keeping them hidden away forever - my plan is to have them out, and let my kids play with them growing up. My collection is definitely for use - it never made a whole lot of sense to me to collect things just for the sake of collecting things. We'll see - if nothing else, my collection is nice and tidy, so it shouldn't be too hard to sell off if that's what they wanted to do. Hopefully, I get to enjoy my own collection for the next 50 years or so.
@bimmy-lee Yeah, I didn't feel quite right just chucking all my systems in there together. Especially since I plan on getting them out somewhat frequently, I didn't like the thought of pulling a box down from the top shelf in the garage (Above my head) and letting the systems slam around. Of course, this due to my current storage situation, and that may not be a problem for many people. Just because of where they are stored, it would be hard on the systems to put them away/get them out.
The larger PS4 cases are pretty spacious too, so they hold everything I need. I.E.,I have a Neo Geo AES, stick, and flash cart (It's huge) in one case, and an N64, 5 controllers, all different types of AV cables (RGB, RF, Composite), accessories in another - so it really helps keep things neat and easily accessible. I even use one to store my Arcade sticks. One case fits my 14" arcade stick in the system tray, my 9.5" hitbox in the bottom portion, and the various cables and accessories I need. Really great cases so far.
EDIT: My water heater went out last month =/ Luckily, the water run into a drain in the garage, so didn't ruin anything. Still an expensive, pain. Glad yours didn't cause too much damage either.
@bimmy-lee Thanks! I recently vacated my home office/game room to make way for my daughter, which is what led me to rethink my storage system.
I just updated my original post with links and pictures. Hope someone finds it helpful. It's certainly not the cheapest route. I'd wager I've got about $400-$500 wrapped up in storage bins/travel cases. The peace of mind and convenience it provided, as well as extra space, was worth it to me. Also, if you're not retrofitting an entire collection at once, the cost isn't too terrible.
Someday, I will have a game room to display my collection in all it's glory like @JaxonH and @Anti-Matter, but until then, I'll settle for the neat, functional, wife-approved long-term storage system I've got now.
This is something that has always been a struggle of mine. Unlike many people I see posting here, I actually quite frequently play my retro systems, so I don't have the guilt of hoarding I see some commenting on. However, I am married, I have an 18 month old son, and my daughter is due this week! So I definitely understand space constraints.
There was a time where I had all of my consoles out at once, connected to my TV through an RGB gScart switch and/or an HDMI switch. I've recently decided that I will now only have 1 retro console connected at a time to reduce clutter and allow me to neatly store/organize things for longer term storage. I use CD/DVD collapsible boxes to store all of my games, which in turn are stored inside of large, plastic, weather sealed Sterilite storage bins.
I then purchased a metric buttload of USA Gear PS4 System Travel cases for my larger systems like Neo Geo AES, SNES, etc... and USA Gear Nintendo Switch cases for smaller systems like PC Engine Core Grafx, Dreamcast, Analogue NT/Super NT, Wii, etc... In each of these cases, I have everything I need to hookup and play - The system itself (Sometimes multiple systems, like different revisions of NES/SNES), AV cables, power adapters, controllers, memory cards, and Flashcarts. Each case has a luggage tag on it labeling the type of system inside.
I won't lie, this method was very expensive. However, I can now store everything in large bins in the garage without worrying about something getting broken, and most importantly, I can very quickly and easily find and setup a console I want to play on a whim. I'll see if I can get some pics added with the exact models of storage bins/travel cases - because I lucked out and everything is a perfect fit.
EDIT: While I figure out the pics, below are the exact items I use. In addition to fitting the system travel cases perfectly, I also use various Sterilite gasket boxes to store empty boxes, game carts, accessories, etc... USA Gear PS4 Case - For larger consoles USA Gear Nintendo Switch Case - For smaller consoles Sterilite 80 Qquart/76 Liter Gasket Box - This perfects fits 3 of the larger PS4 system Cases Sterilite 54 Quart/51 Liter Gasket Box - This perfectly fits 4 of the smaller Nintendo Switch Cases
EDIT2 - Pics: Here's the pictures. Many more of these out in the garage =) First pic is of the USA Gear Switch cases in the Sterilite 51 liter box. That's my Analogue NT, Super NT, PC Engine Core Grafx and (missing) Dreamcast.
Next, is my Vectrex and Neo Geo AES in a USA Gear PS4 case in the Sterilite 76 liter box. 3 of those USA Gear cases fit perfect in the storage box.
Last pic, just a random closet that has yet to be evacuated to the garage. A couple more consoles near the bottom in USA Gear cases, and a few shelves of games in collapsible CD/DVD cases that can be picked up cheaply from Amazon.
@Qun_Mang I don't really know what qualifies as "Standard" but a 14 layer PCB for something like this does seem quite high to me. I've seen high end PC motherboards with around 8 PCB layers, for reference. To be fair, it's not often disclosed how many layers a PCB has either, so it could be 14 layers is more common that I'd think. I do know that from a hobbyist perspective, having a 2 layer PCB is way cheaper than even a 4 layer, and the cost continues to go up from there.
@BulbasaurusRex I won't disagree with you that this isn't for most people - though to be fair, retro gaming in general isn't for most people. Most people do not want to go through the hassle of purchasing an old system, especially the PC Engine CD/TurboDuo systems which are prone to breaking, and going through the trouble of connecting it to their TV. Then you often have to worry about an upscaler or having a separate CRT for retro gaming. I've done both, and have since settled on a Sony PVM CRT and sold my XRGB mini.
For what this thing does, it's a pretty good deal if you're the type that wants to play on original hardware. You don't have to worry about having a CD system prone to breaking, you get decreased load times for CD, and you don't have to buy system cards which are very expensive. So if you are the type that was going to play on original hardware anyway, you'd be spending a fair amount of cash either way.
That said, I am disappointed in the issues with this device. I cracked mine open last night, and sure enough, the C60 capacitor was installed incorrectly. It was a 2 minute solder job to fix, but unfortunately, that means you probably shouldn't buy this unless you are comfortable with working on electronics either. That's becoming an increasingly important skill for any retro game system, but it is quite disappointing to have to do that to a brand new device. I won't go into detail on the quality of the library, since it's pretty subjective, but I think there are a bunch of great games on the PC Engine, especially considering the CD library.
@Averagewriter No, this device need the expansion port. It does work on the PC Engine LT, however - I tested that just prior to selling mine. If you're looking for a cheap solution to use with this, the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II work as well. Since I sold my PC Engine LT (They're stupid expensive), I picked up a Core Grafx for about $50 to use with this.
I can't recommend their products enough, and yet I can't recommend not purchasing direct enough. I bought my NeoSD and the Super SD System 3 from them direct - customer support wasn't abysmal, it was literally non-existent. After not receiving a shipping update from them for weeks, despite the products being listed as in stock, I opened a support case with them, updating twice a week asking for a response. I never received a response 5 weeks later until the products magically appeared on my front door, after I had already opened a dispute with my bank (Which I had to cancel).
Short version - the products are awesome, but stay away from TerraOnion. Buy from a retailer like Stone Age Gamer if you can.
@Alto I'm in, let's get our own started =D I've been building my collection for years, I just need to figure out how to display it and share the love now.
Still no resolution on my issues, so I've decided to make one last post, hopefully saving someone else from such issues. I cannot recommend against giving NEOSD enough. Regardless of the quality of this product, the company behind it appears to lack any custom support whatsoever, and have failed to ship my order, even after multiple attempts to make contact.
I've ordered plenty of electronics and retro gaming accessories from smaller companies - Huge shoutout to people like Ed Mandy (Flash Masta products) and SainT (RetroHQ) for excellent support and communication. However, NEOSD and parent company TerraOnion is not one anyone should feel comfortable giving their money to. I should have purchased from a reputable retailed (Such as Stone Age Gamer) instead of the neosd store directly, but I will now refuse to buy this product from anywhere, even if they do get me money back. I'm now over 2 weeks in, several hundred dollars down, and in the process of disputing with my bank to see if there is anything they can do to get me my money back. Buyer beware.
EDIT 2/20/18: I felt bad leaving the last post of the article so negative, so wanted to provide an update to any future buyers. I eventually did get my order. I never received a response from customer support after several weeks of trying. This is still extremely alarming. I would still caution interested buyers, and recommend going through a trusted retailer (Stone Age Gamer) rather than purchasing direct. At least Terraonion aren't complete crooks - they just have truly terrible (Non-existent) customer support. On the upside, both the products I received from them are outstanding.
I'm a sucker for playing on original hardware... but I can't get their stupid checkout to take my money. So I guess they don't get any from me. And yes, I've approved the transaction through my bank multiple times...
Regardless, the Neo SD and the Super System 3 look to be amazing pieces of gear, especially for original hardware types like myself. The lack of something like this is the exact reason I've not yet got into collecting anything Neo Geo related. That, and the fact that some of the best carts cost thousands of dollars, of course.
EDIT: So I finally got an order to go through, but I've not received any sort of shipping confirmation in nearly 2 weeks. I opened a support case 2 weeks ago, updated it multiple times, and still no response. @Damo Did they send you the product, or did you place your own order? Any past experience with the company? Getting a little bit worried, especially given the cost.
EDIT 2: My bad, I see it was sent via Stone Age Gamer. I've ordered from them before, guess I should have tried them this time. I thought you had to buy from the neosd store direct. Uhg... hope this all works out.
@Azikira Atari is in a much better place financially than they have been in a long time. After filing for bankruptcy in 2013, Fred Chesnais made them a profitable company again. Also, they've had several iterations of Atari Flashbacks (5 or 6 I believe) so the likely have a decent amount of data and can make an educated analysis of how well a product like this would perform. It will be interesting to see how it turns out. I think it will ultimately come down to the price of the device.
@retro_player_22 Also remember that there have been several products that did not meet their crowdfunding goals that still moved on to be finished products. My guess is, just as Atari said, they are just doing this to limit risks as much as possible. Raise some capital up front, and as long as they don't drastically miss their targets, my guess is they will move this to a finial product regardless. Could be wrong of course, but that's my guess.
@Henmii Sorry, I'm not entirely certain what you are referring to? We were talking about Nintendo licensing their games for use by end users, but it sounds like you may be referring to unlicensed software/peripherals? If so, regardless of how we feel about unlicensed products, that doesn't really change anything as far as ROMs, emulation, and archival backups go.
@Kalmaro What do you expect Nintendo to say? Of course they are going to tell you that you can't do it, that don't want you to make any copy of their software. Again, it doesn't matter what they want. Again, do some research on your own - there is nothing in copyright law that prohibits backup copies for personal use. Your argument falls apart unless you are referring specifically to the Wii U/Switch.
We've had good conversation at first, but now you're just being lazy, incompetent, and stubborn. I've provided you with links to Nintendo's EULA's. Other's have provided you with links to Copyright law section 117, which explicitly permits archival copies.
Heck, I'll do you one better - Here's the legal case between Nintendo and Galoob (Game Genie Maker) over whether or not the game genie modification/adaptation was legal. The Legal case was ruled in Galoob's favor, with section 117 being the ruling used to justify Galoob's action - the exact same section that permits archival backups. What more do you want? Again, stop being lazy, do your own research, and quit spouting nonsense. I have no problems if you disagree with me, but at least use sound logic and reasoning, rather than making outrageous assumptions and trying to use documents out of context.
@Kalmaro Your argument is not even remotely close to standing - you've cited a EULA that did not exist until 20+ years later. It has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to this conversation. They do not "Have that on all of their stuff" as you would have seen if you followed my link and read for yourself. It first showed up in the Wii U EULA. If we were talking about taking dumps of Nintendo Switch carts, maybe you would have a leg to stand on, but you don't. Go ahead and show me a single example of a SNES game that contained a EULA, let alone prohibited archival copies. Or N64. Heck, Gamecube even. I'll wait.
@Kalmaro First, it doesn't matter what Nintendo makes clear. Their word isn't law. The most they can do it put it in the EULA. Guess what revision of their EULA Nintendo added the comment of "Licensed not Sold" to? I'll help you - it was the Wii U. And rather than linking to some un-reputable third party site that doesn't even specify what system or software the EULA applies do, let me help you out: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp?menu=wii&submenu=rvl-doc-eula
You're welcome. So the Switch and Wii U software is licensed. Big deal. Even that may or may not prevent you from being able to make legal copies, as again, local laws may trump that. Regardless, it is completely irrelevant, as the Wii U and Switch EULA have absolutely nothing to do with the consoles we are talking about.
Comments 66
Re: Hardware Review: Analogue Pocket - Potent FPGA Power In Portable Form
@HamatoYoshi There's a ton of smartphones that use Gorilla Glass. https://www.corning.com/gorillaglass/worldwide/en/products-with-gorilla-glass/smartphones.html
Re: Ready To Ditch Those AA Batteries? Check Out The Amazing 'CleanJuice' Game Boy Mod
@SmartNickname It's quite simple to backlight a GB as well. Though, there is something to be said for experience games on the original hardware as it was originally designed. I personally enjoy old games, even some that are "bad" or ran on "bad" hardware, if for nothing more than experiencing a history that interests me.
Re: Analogue's Next FPGA Console Tackles Kanye West's Favourite System: The PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16
@Heavyarms55 I agree with you. By far my most anticipated system, and I was actively trying to get my pre-orders (I wanted 2) in as soon as the site went live, and still couldn't. No way I'm paying scalpers though. Was really hoping this announcement would bring with it a second pre-order batch for the pocket, even more so now that it support PC Engine.
Re: Hardware Review: Terraonion MODE - The Ultimate Upgrade For Your Saturn And Dreamcast?
@Reprise I think the biggest benefit is that you can actually by one. Since they stubbornly refuse to do any sort of waiting list/pre-order/backorder, actually getting an order in for a GDemu. I finally did get one, and overall I am very happy, but this seems easier to come by and has some features GDemu lacks.
Re: Terraonion Is Releasing An Optical Disc Emulator For The Sega Saturn And Dreamcast
@nintendoknife Oh, he's certainly not faultless =) I gave up on ever buying another GDEmu solely because of his terrible attitude and refusal to do any sort of pre-order/back-order/waiting list like any number of other small projects I have supported have done, because that simply "Doesn't work" and we "Don't actually know what you're asking for"... so yeah, his condescension gets old quick.
Still, regarding knockoff - I see where you are coming from now. I would still call it a knockoff, just a high quality knockoff. Knockoffs have a bad reputation because they typically are terrible, but personally, I don't think something has to be bad to consider it a "knockoff". Either way, I think we're on the same page now.
Re: Terraonion Is Releasing An Optical Disc Emulator For The Sega Saturn And Dreamcast
@nintendoknife It's not harsh, the fact that is uses the same board is what makes it a knockoff. If anything, it's not harsh enough. The Chinese companies blatantly stole the GDEmu design, which is a small one man project, and are selling it as their own. I'm not judging anyone that buys the knockoff, since the real ones are so hard to come by, but there's no denying that they stole his IP and repackaged it as their own product.
Re: Terraonion Is Releasing An Optical Disc Emulator For The Sega Saturn And Dreamcast
@carlos82 Not saying it is a bad purchase by any means. I own their AES and PC Engine carts. The Neo SD AES is ridiculously expensive, but as you said, it gave me access to a previously inaccessibly library of games. I own a GDEmu for my Dreamcast, so this would just be for a Sega Saturn (Which I don't actually own yet) - so it would be a pretty big investment for me. I am still considering it, but now isn't really a good time for me to be dropping $300-$400 on a whim. Based on your avatar, maybe you're the one to convince me to finally get into the Saturn's library =P
Re: Terraonion Is Releasing An Optical Disc Emulator For The Sega Saturn And Dreamcast
@somebread Yes - but the big issue is those GDEmu is ridiculously hard to get your hands on, especially if you don't live in the same time zone, since he doesn't have a wait list/pre-orders. There are knockoffs available, but the genuine GDEmu is still very hard to come by. I'm tempted by this for that reason, but the price is just too much for me.
Re: Feature: Your Beloved Games Console Is Slowly But Surely Dying
I've said it before, but at least a fundamental understanding of electronics is almost required now for retro gaming. It's saved my neck I don't know how many times, and breathed new life into old consoles. It's also easy to pick up extremely cheap consoles in need of simple repairs if you're not afraid of a bit of small parts soldering.
EDIT: It also opens up the possibility of cheap, non-destructive RGB mods to bring out the best of your old consoles, rather than paying tons of money for someone else to do it for you. Despite what most seem to think, it's not overly difficult to learn either.
@Beermonkey Unfortunately, that is extremely common with many consoles of that era, especially Sega. I've recapped countless GameGear, Nomads, and PC Engine GT/LTs.
Re: Hardware Review: 16Bit Pocket MD - An Unexpectedly Decent Portable Mega Drive
@Synthatron_Prime Thanks. I will also give props to @Atariboy for that - it's not very common for folks to remain civil when calling out misinformation, so thanks for that.
Re: Hardware Review: 16Bit Pocket MD - An Unexpectedly Decent Portable Mega Drive
@Atariboy @Synthatron_Prime I'm big enough to admit when I've made a mistake. Although, it is a bit more embarrassing when it is something this factually incorrect =) Even more so since I've worked as a developer for years now, and have been involved with electronics projects as a hobbyist for as long as I can remember. For whatever reason, I jumped to thinking this was an ARM based SoC running software emulation, not NOAC type device. You are absolutely correct - this is a hardware based ASIC implementation, my apologies for being the one to spread misleading information. I'll leave my original post, but update it to point to your explanation.
@BulbasaurusRex Yes, you can, people absolutely do. That was the one point of my original post that I will still stand by - The term emulation is still used in many ways. For example, an FPGA (And similarly, this SoC) can be said to emulate the target system in hardware. Another misconception with emulation is that software emulation is inherently worse than a hardware implementation. Either can be extremely accurate depending on the implementation - like the Higan software emulator or Kevtris/Analogue Super NT, but both can be highly inaccurate as well, like the many clone devices or poorly written software emulators.
Re: Hardware Review: 16Bit Pocket MD - An Unexpectedly Decent Portable Mega Drive
@Atariboy Which is emulation. That's how the <insert game console> on a chip works. The hardware does not exist to run the games directly, and most, if not all, of the system's original features are implemented in software. Additionally, whether an Everdrive works on has no relevance as to whether or not something is emulated - you can use physical carts/discs on most PC emulators as well. Admittedly, the word clone and emulation can both be used to refer to many things, but this is not a hardware clone in the same way that something like the Analogue Mega SG clones the original hardware in FPGA, or how Cyrix cloned Intel processor architecture in the 90s.
Re: Hardware Review: To Enjoy The New BittBoy, You'll Need To Get Your Hands Dirty
@Balta666 I think you may have missed my intended point. I'm the one that originally pointed out that many people equate morality to legality - which I clearly do not. I even said it is and should be illegal to download ROMs. I don't disagree with anything you said.
@Medic_alert same to you - great talk, always pleasant when people can remain civil in a relatively contentious topic.
Re: Hardware Review: To Enjoy The New BittBoy, You'll Need To Get Your Hands Dirty
@Medic_alert First, let me state I agree with you - downloading ROMs is clearly illegal and my personal morality should have nothing to do with it. I just know from past experience that it always seems to get brought up, and thought I would address it up front, that legality is not the same as morality. So glad we can agree there
Second, I'll also agree that the law is quite fuzzy on the subject. However, the precedent has been set - you can use legally obtained games on other hardware via emulation, typically even when it is explicitly forbidden by a company's EULA. Company policy does not trump law. Of course, this differs depending on where you life, but generally speaking you are in the clear using your own software on other hardware via emulation. It's also a very different scenario from attempting to re-release previously licensed software, as that is an agreement between two parties for commercial distribution/sale of goods. We're talking about personal use of a legally obtain video game that you already own.
At the end of the day, it actually seems like we agree more than not. I don't think anyone has a "right" to pirate any software just because a company chose not to release it. If I could wave a magic wand and eliminate all piracy, I would. But since I can't, and I know I support the game company's by purchasing their games anyway, I have no personal issue downloading and playing roms that I already own.
Re: Hardware Review: To Enjoy The New BittBoy, You'll Need To Get Your Hands Dirty
@Medic_alert There's a difference between making excuses for illegal behavior, and describing the reasons that contribute to illegal behavior. You can certainly describe the factors that drive folks to piracy without condoning it.
Separate from that topic, there's also a difference between legality and morality, and I've got no moral qualms with having ROMs of many of my favorite Nintendo games on a flash cart, especially given that I own them many times over and would likely purchase them again on Switch when given an opportunity. Piracy is a form a theft, for sure, but it is also not the same as stealing physical goods. In my scenario - which is still completely illegal - there is absolutely no harm done to Nintendo in any way. Obviously that's not the case for many (most?) people, and piracy can lead to extreme harm, which is why I think it should be illegal. But that doesn't mean I'm always morally opposed in all cases, either - especially for titles you legally own.
EDIT: @Medic_alert, sorry, but your last statement in your response to @Trajan is incorrect. Emulation has been tried and proven time and again as legal. It is perfectly legal to play your own copy - be it an archival copy, or original copy - on other devices than the one it was originally intended. The archival law written for computer software is certainly flimsy for sure - and depending on where you live, you may or may not be able to legally make backup copies. But assuming you have a legal copy (Backup or original) you can certainly use it on other devices.
Re: Feature: One Company Is Retrofitting Classic Systems With HDMI Output Without Costing The Earth
@Damo I'm not disagreeing with you (Post #10), but if you're going to use an XRGB Mini/OSSC for multiple systems - which, I assume, most would - the cost becomes quite a bit more palatable. This is a great option for those nostalgic for a specific console, but the cost would quickly add up if you're looking to add several of these to your retro-system collection.
Personally, I'm all for more options. I've since sold my XRGB Mini and moved to a CRT, but I also have a beharbros adapter for my dreamcast, as well as an Analogue NT/Super NT, so I definitely understand the appear of a simple HDMI out solution.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
@embison As a couple of us had previously mentioned, some definitely would prefer the more authentic experience of playing on a CRT, and I do still play that way whenever I can. Sometimes life gets in the way though, and it's just easier/more convenient to play on a modern TV.
These systems provide an extremely accurate representation of the original hardware, with the modern conveniences of wireless controllers and HDMI out. If you are a 100% purist, then I guess this wouldn't be for you - but there isn't really anything comparatively accurate on the market, HDMI or not. Personally, I do really wish that these systems retained analog out as well, like the original Analogue NT. That way you have the choice of using it on a CRT or an HDTV, and as life circumstances change, swap between the two as needed.
As for simply buying a genesis, that's an option. That will become more difficult as time goes on. CRTs are becoming extremely expensive and difficult to come by. It is also very common for systems of that era to require complete capacitor replacements. You're looking at expensive mods if you want region free, Genesis/MasterDrive/GG. You lose the ability to dump your carts and play from SD (Unofficially). If you plan on using your original console on a modern TV anyway, quality will be much lower than this, or require an expensive upscaler like an OSSC or XRGB Mini, which are expensive and introduce additional latency.
So basically... this is a simple to use, extremely accurate, high quality product with an admittedly niche audience. If you're looking for a comparatively accurate experience, and you don't already have the equipment (CRT, upscaler) or space for a dedicated retro gaming area, this could end up being quite a bit cheaper, more convenient, and produce higher quality image/sound.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
@shani Click-baity? It's clearly just poking fun at the great console war of the 16-bit era, given that Analogue now produces a Genesis and a SNES console. I think it's a given that they don't genuinely think a Sega Genesis is literally going to reignite a massive console war. Analogue's homepage is also a head to head image of the Super NT and the Mega SG with the caption "Console wars are back"... so there's that.
@FlameRunnerFast You say it as if it would be a bad thing, but that's exactly what they did. I've followed Kevin's work for quite a while - before he started doing work with Analogue on the NT. He was in an interview talking about the Super NT and how he built custom hardware to simultaneously run his FPGA chips in parallel with the original chips while analyzing both in order to verify that the FPGA is functioning identically to the original chips. If anyone else were to claim a perfect replication of the original hardware, I'd have my doubts, but Kevin is a wizard.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
@GravyThief I don't blame you. I had a bit of spare cash at the time, but if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't buy the NT Mini again simply because it's so expensive and I just don't enjoy the games as much as the SNES library. I don't regret buying it, but life changes and I just wouldn't be willing to drop $400 on an NES anymore. No regrets buying the Super-NT, though, and I'm all over this as soon as I get their store page to load...
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
@Axlroselm If history holds true, the official response will be no roms supported via SD card, followed by an anonymous patch the day after launch that enables it. Both the NT Mini and Super NT can load ROMs from SD. If it's a deal breaker for you, I'd suggest waiting until the device is released just to make sure that this also gets the firmware jailbreak treatment.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
@ShadJV That's where your own "Legally dumped" roms come into play =) That was code for piracy.
@Ryno Still not yet. I've checked every 30 minutes or so and the site's been down. Rotating through a bunch of different HTTP errors, ranging from not found, not authorized, and currently no response.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
@GravyThief I'm in the exact same boat as you, not getting as much time as I would like to play my original consoles on my CRT led me to give Analogue a shot initially, and I've since been hooked. Regarding the Mega Drive, I used both the NT-Mini and my Super-NT with an EverDrive-N8 and SD2SNES respectively with no issues, so I would expect the same here.
I also know that with a firmware update, you could play directly from SD. In the case of the NES NT-Mini, Kevtris stated that it supported more mappers and should actually have higher compatibility than flashcarts. I don't know if the same was true for Super-NT, but I would imagine the compatibility would be great there as well.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
@mikegamer That's not entirely accurate, and there's a bit of a mixup in the terms being used. It's not software emulation, but an FPGA does not simulate the hardware. It emulates the original hardware, in its own hardware. The issue is, 99% of the people that hear "Emulation" immediately jump to software emulation. Emulation historically referred to a combination of hardware/software emulation, and a simulation is purely software based. Of the two terms, simulation would be the least accurate reproduction method. So while I get why they are avoiding the term "Emulation" to avoid confusion with running a software emulator, saying that the FPGA emulates the original hardware is still accurate.
@ShadJV Correct. Either use your original carts, or your own legally dumped ROMs, which is what I am sure everyone will do =P
@HobbitGamer I think the price tag is simply a result of the insane amount of research and development work needed to replicate the systems in an FPGA implementation, coupled with the relatively small market for such a device.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
@Jimgamer8 I would literally buy every single handheld system they put out =P I have a PC engine GT that I never use (Battery hog/awful screen) and I briefly had an LT that I purchased broken for $600 and repaired, but ultimately decided not to keep once I realized I could sell it for $1500. Having a quality portable to play that library on would be a Godsend for me. For whatever reason, I've always favored portables over consoles. Until then, my Core Grafx will suffice.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
@Jimgamer8 If they re-released Wonderswan and Neo Geo Pocket Color with backlit screens, I'd buy both day one. I have a regular Wonderswan and NGPC, along with one of each that I modded with a front-light screen. While that's acceptable in the absence of any other solution, it's still pretty far from ideal.
@nesrocks As @Agent721 said, sound has been perfect so far. If I recall correctly (I didn't use the feature) one of the selling points was that the Super NT could play SNES sound files, so you could use it as a retro music player. I would expect 100% accuracy from the Sega console as well, since they are once again fully recreating system hardware in the FPGA.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
I'm sure this is also the reason we did not see new cores released for the Super NT, like we did with the NES NT Mini. Considering the Super NT/Mega SG are running on the same FPGA, they definitely could have released a new core to allow Sega games to run on the Super NT. It would be pretty much exact concept Kevtris was working on since before Analogue with his Zimba 3000 FPGA console. It also ran on the same FPGA. Of course, this approach makes way more sense from a business perspective, but I can't help but want an all in one FPGA console for all 16-bit consoles. Hopefully someday that product because a reality. Because I haven't given them enough money just yet.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
@JHDK Join me in ending the war and buy them all. Then we can start a new war on poverty.
Re: Feature: The Console Wars Are Back With The Analogue Mega Sg, The First FPGA Sega Console
So excited. I know they are expensive, but the Analogue products are simply amazing. Excellent quality, excellent accuracy, convenience of playing wirelessly & on modern TV's while my originals nap happily in their storage cases. I'd have already pre-ordered mine if their Store page was working properly...
Re: Hardware Review: The Sega Saturn Bluetooth Pad Doesn't Live Up To Its Inspiration
@SethNintendo This is really odd to me, too. How is it that even Nintendo, who perfected the D-Pad 30 years ago, still manages to screw up D-Pads today?
Re: Hardware Review: Does The SNK Neo Geo Mini Outclass Nintendo's Classic Editions?
@jbrodack I won't disagree, I think the Neo Geo X made a better starting point. That may be because I'm strongly biased towards portables, but who knows. I know you can switch the aspect ratio, but using only a fraction of the screen and playing with black boarders really bothers me, so that may be another reason why I wasn't as enamored with the Neo Geo X.
As for arcade1up, I had never heard of them before now, so thanks for the info. That does look pretty cool - getting a full blown arcade cabinet for $300 is crazy. I'm pretty worried about the build quality, but then again, at that price, it would be pretty hard to complain. Could definitely use that as a starting point for your own MAME build, rather than building/purchasing a custom cabinet for much more.
Re: Hardware Review: Does The SNK Neo Geo Mini Outclass Nintendo's Classic Editions?
@jbrodack That was my main problem with it. It was a decent device, I suppose, but the emulation wasn't great, and the screen's aspect ratio was definitely a poor design choice given the cost of the device. It was just too expensive for a decent device. At that price, it needed to be outstanding, and in my opinion, it just wasn't. As a collector, and especially as a collector of portable devices, I'm glad to have one, but I wouldn't have recommended it for most people.
Re: Feature: What Makes A Person Sell Their Entire Retro Games Collection?
@NEStalgia I'm a PC/Nintendo only sort of a guy. Somehow, I've rationalized digital only on PC. I don't want to get into it that XD That's great for XBone/PS4 owners though. Hopefully Nintendo will follow suit someday, and if we can install from physical media, even better.
EDIT: Meme? Of course Melee is the best Smash ever =P
@bimmy-lee We're getting old... I have more games, and play them less, than I ever have =/ Like you, I probably only got a few games a year. Maybe between 3-5. Most of my original system libraries were about 15-20 games by the end of their life cycle. It helped me truly value, and love the gaming experiences I had, though. It also made going over to a friends house and sharing/trading temporarily quite enjoyable as well.
My best friend was making fun of me the other day with an imaginary conversation "So, you play a lot of video games? ... Oh no, I don't play them. I just collect them"
Re: Feature: What Makes A Person Sell Their Entire Retro Games Collection?
@NEStalgia Installing games from a cart would be my dream.
EDIT: My favorite part about that dream, is that so many people act like it's completely impossible and that we haven't been able to do the same thing since the 80's...
@Ralizah I aggree with you, despite being a retail wherever possible type of guy, I assume I would play multiplayer games more often if not for cart switching.
If the ability to backup/restore games from local media was handled properly, I'd have no real issues going digital only. At least then I could download my software, make a backup storage copy of it somewhere, and not have to worry about authentication/download servers going offline in the future. Until then, I'll stick to predominately retail, I suppose.
Re: Atari Comes Under Fire For Seemingly Knowing Very Little About Its Crowdfunded VCS Console
I was really interested in this strictly due to nostalgia and was close to hopping on board a couple times. Really glad I didn't, and I genuinely hope that folks that want their money back get it back... and then the company tanks. Truly is a despicable response to The Register's article.
@Jop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari
It's not that same Atari, and it definitely isn't the same Atari that created the original VCS. Read throught he acquisitions part of the wiki... it's a bit confusing/convoluted.
Re: Feature: What Makes A Person Sell Their Entire Retro Games Collection?
@Ralizah Technically, you're still supposed to be paying use tax on those items. Purchasing online isn't suppose to be a way around State sales tax, it's just what everyone does.
@foobarbaz I won't say you are wrong, there's a lot of people that feel as you do, but there is definitely a difference between emulation and original hardware. Especially if you have a CRT for retro stuff. I understand that's a niche audience within an already niche retro audience. I prefer to play on original hardware where possible, but I also still appreciate and make use of emulation - especially to play home console games on portable devices, like the GPD Win or my 3DS. I've even got a few re-releases on my Switch. So emulation is an awesome technology/alternative, but it's not the same, either.
I could be wrong, but I would hope my kids would enjoy my collection someday. I don't plan on keeping them hidden away forever - my plan is to have them out, and let my kids play with them growing up. My collection is definitely for use - it never made a whole lot of sense to me to collect things just for the sake of collecting things. We'll see - if nothing else, my collection is nice and tidy, so it shouldn't be too hard to sell off if that's what they wanted to do. Hopefully, I get to enjoy my own collection for the next 50 years or so.
Re: Feature: What Makes A Person Sell Their Entire Retro Games Collection?
@bimmy-lee Yeah, I didn't feel quite right just chucking all my systems in there together. Especially since I plan on getting them out somewhat frequently, I didn't like the thought of pulling a box down from the top shelf in the garage (Above my head) and letting the systems slam around. Of course, this due to my current storage situation, and that may not be a problem for many people. Just because of where they are stored, it would be hard on the systems to put them away/get them out.
The larger PS4 cases are pretty spacious too, so they hold everything I need. I.E.,I have a Neo Geo AES, stick, and flash cart (It's huge) in one case, and an N64, 5 controllers, all different types of AV cables (RGB, RF, Composite), accessories in another - so it really helps keep things neat and easily accessible. I even use one to store my Arcade sticks. One case fits my 14" arcade stick in the system tray, my 9.5" hitbox in the bottom portion, and the various cables and accessories I need. Really great cases so far.
EDIT: My water heater went out last month =/ Luckily, the water run into a drain in the garage, so didn't ruin anything. Still an expensive, pain. Glad yours didn't cause too much damage either.
Re: Feature: What Makes A Person Sell Their Entire Retro Games Collection?
@bimmy-lee Thanks! I recently vacated my home office/game room to make way for my daughter, which is what led me to rethink my storage system.
I just updated my original post with links and pictures. Hope someone finds it helpful. It's certainly not the cheapest route. I'd wager I've got about $400-$500 wrapped up in storage bins/travel cases. The peace of mind and convenience it provided, as well as extra space, was worth it to me. Also, if you're not retrofitting an entire collection at once, the cost isn't too terrible.
Someday, I will have a game room to display my collection in all it's glory like @JaxonH and @Anti-Matter, but until then, I'll settle for the neat, functional, wife-approved long-term storage system I've got now.
Re: Feature: What Makes A Person Sell Their Entire Retro Games Collection?
This is something that has always been a struggle of mine. Unlike many people I see posting here, I actually quite frequently play my retro systems, so I don't have the guilt of hoarding I see some commenting on. However, I am married, I have an 18 month old son, and my daughter is due this week! So I definitely understand space constraints.
There was a time where I had all of my consoles out at once, connected to my TV through an RGB gScart switch and/or an HDMI switch. I've recently decided that I will now only have 1 retro console connected at a time to reduce clutter and allow me to neatly store/organize things for longer term storage. I use CD/DVD collapsible boxes to store all of my games, which in turn are stored inside of large, plastic, weather sealed Sterilite storage bins.
I then purchased a metric buttload of USA Gear PS4 System Travel cases for my larger systems like Neo Geo AES, SNES, etc... and USA Gear Nintendo Switch cases for smaller systems like PC Engine Core Grafx, Dreamcast, Analogue NT/Super NT, Wii, etc... In each of these cases, I have everything I need to hookup and play - The system itself (Sometimes multiple systems, like different revisions of NES/SNES), AV cables, power adapters, controllers, memory cards, and Flashcarts. Each case has a luggage tag on it labeling the type of system inside.
I won't lie, this method was very expensive. However, I can now store everything in large bins in the garage without worrying about something getting broken, and most importantly, I can very quickly and easily find and setup a console I want to play on a whim. I'll see if I can get some pics added with the exact models of storage bins/travel cases - because I lucked out and everything is a perfect fit.
EDIT: While I figure out the pics, below are the exact items I use. In addition to fitting the system travel cases perfectly, I also use various Sterilite gasket boxes to store empty boxes, game carts, accessories, etc...
USA Gear PS4 Case - For larger consoles
USA Gear Nintendo Switch Case - For smaller consoles
Sterilite 80 Qquart/76 Liter Gasket Box - This perfects fits 3 of the larger PS4 system Cases
Sterilite 54 Quart/51 Liter Gasket Box - This perfectly fits 4 of the smaller Nintendo Switch Cases
EDIT2 - Pics: Here's the pictures. Many more of these out in the garage =) First pic is of the USA Gear Switch cases in the Sterilite 51 liter box. That's my Analogue NT, Super NT, PC Engine Core Grafx and (missing) Dreamcast.
Next, is my Vectrex and Neo Geo AES in a USA Gear PS4 case in the Sterilite 76 liter box. 3 of those USA Gear cases fit perfect in the storage box.
Last pic, just a random closet that has yet to be evacuated to the garage. A couple more consoles near the bottom in USA Gear cases, and a few shelves of games in collapsible CD/DVD cases that can be picked up cheaply from Amazon.
Re: Video: Polymega Gears Up For Marketing Blitz With Footage Of PCB Creation
@Qun_Mang I don't really know what qualifies as "Standard" but a 14 layer PCB for something like this does seem quite high to me. I've seen high end PC motherboards with around 8 PCB layers, for reference. To be fair, it's not often disclosed how many layers a PCB has either, so it could be 14 layers is more common that I'd think. I do know that from a hobbyist perspective, having a 2 layer PCB is way cheaper than even a 4 layer, and the cost continues to go up from there.
Re: Hardware Review: Terraonion Super SD System 3 Unlocks The Entire PC Engine Library
@BulbasaurusRex I won't disagree with you that this isn't for most people - though to be fair, retro gaming in general isn't for most people. Most people do not want to go through the hassle of purchasing an old system, especially the PC Engine CD/TurboDuo systems which are prone to breaking, and going through the trouble of connecting it to their TV. Then you often have to worry about an upscaler or having a separate CRT for retro gaming. I've done both, and have since settled on a Sony PVM CRT and sold my XRGB mini.
For what this thing does, it's a pretty good deal if you're the type that wants to play on original hardware. You don't have to worry about having a CD system prone to breaking, you get decreased load times for CD, and you don't have to buy system cards which are very expensive. So if you are the type that was going to play on original hardware anyway, you'd be spending a fair amount of cash either way.
That said, I am disappointed in the issues with this device. I cracked mine open last night, and sure enough, the C60 capacitor was installed incorrectly. It was a 2 minute solder job to fix, but unfortunately, that means you probably shouldn't buy this unless you are comfortable with working on electronics either. That's becoming an increasingly important skill for any retro game system, but it is quite disappointing to have to do that to a brand new device. I won't go into detail on the quality of the library, since it's pretty subjective, but I think there are a bunch of great games on the PC Engine, especially considering the CD library.
Re: Hardware Review: Terraonion Super SD System 3 Unlocks The Entire PC Engine Library
@Averagewriter No, this device need the expansion port. It does work on the PC Engine LT, however - I tested that just prior to selling mine. If you're looking for a cheap solution to use with this, the Core Grafx and Core Grafx II work as well. Since I sold my PC Engine LT (They're stupid expensive), I picked up a Core Grafx for about $50 to use with this.
Re: Hardware Review: Terraonion Super SD System 3 Unlocks The Entire PC Engine Library
I can't recommend their products enough, and yet I can't recommend not purchasing direct enough. I bought my NeoSD and the Super SD System 3 from them direct - customer support wasn't abysmal, it was literally non-existent. After not receiving a shipping update from them for weeks, despite the products being listed as in stock, I opened a support case with them, updating twice a week asking for a response. I never received a response 5 weeks later until the products magically appeared on my front door, after I had already opened a dispute with my bank (Which I had to cancel).
Short version - the products are awesome, but stay away from TerraOnion. Buy from a retailer like Stone Age Gamer if you can.
Re: Feature: A Tour Of Game Bar A Button, Tokyo's Treasure Trove Of Gaming Kitch
@Alto I'm in, let's get our own started =D I've been building my collection for years, I just need to figure out how to display it and share the love now.
Re: Feature: Neo Geo's First Flash Cart Is Here, So What Now For Switch-Owning SNK Fans?
Still no resolution on my issues, so I've decided to make one last post, hopefully saving someone else from such issues. I cannot recommend against giving NEOSD enough. Regardless of the quality of this product, the company behind it appears to lack any custom support whatsoever, and have failed to ship my order, even after multiple attempts to make contact.
I've ordered plenty of electronics and retro gaming accessories from smaller companies - Huge shoutout to people like Ed Mandy (Flash Masta products) and SainT (RetroHQ) for excellent support and communication. However, NEOSD and parent company TerraOnion is not one anyone should feel comfortable giving their money to. I should have purchased from a reputable retailed (Such as Stone Age Gamer) instead of the neosd store directly, but I will now refuse to buy this product from anywhere, even if they do get me money back. I'm now over 2 weeks in, several hundred dollars down, and in the process of disputing with my bank to see if there is anything they can do to get me my money back. Buyer beware.
EDIT 2/20/18: I felt bad leaving the last post of the article so negative, so wanted to provide an update to any future buyers. I eventually did get my order. I never received a response from customer support after several weeks of trying. This is still extremely alarming. I would still caution interested buyers, and recommend going through a trusted retailer (Stone Age Gamer) rather than purchasing direct. At least Terraonion aren't complete crooks - they just have truly terrible (Non-existent) customer support. On the upside, both the products I received from them are outstanding.
Re: Feature: Neo Geo's First Flash Cart Is Here, So What Now For Switch-Owning SNK Fans?
I'm a sucker for playing on original hardware... but I can't get their stupid checkout to take my money. So I guess they don't get any from me. And yes, I've approved the transaction through my bank multiple times...
Regardless, the Neo SD and the Super System 3 look to be amazing pieces of gear, especially for original hardware types like myself. The lack of something like this is the exact reason I've not yet got into collecting anything Neo Geo related. That, and the fact that some of the best carts cost thousands of dollars, of course.
EDIT: So I finally got an order to go through, but I've not received any sort of shipping confirmation in nearly 2 weeks. I opened a support case 2 weeks ago, updated it multiple times, and still no response. @Damo Did they send you the product, or did you place your own order? Any past experience with the company? Getting a little bit worried, especially given the cost.
EDIT 2: My bad, I see it was sent via Stone Age Gamer. I've ordered from them before, guess I should have tried them this time. I thought you had to buy from the neosd store direct. Uhg... hope this all works out.
Re: Atari's New Console Seems To Be Part NES Classic Mini, Part Ouya
@Azikira Atari is in a much better place financially than they have been in a long time. After filing for bankruptcy in 2013, Fred Chesnais made them a profitable company again. Also, they've had several iterations of Atari Flashbacks (5 or 6 I believe) so the likely have a decent amount of data and can make an educated analysis of how well a product like this would perform. It will be interesting to see how it turns out. I think it will ultimately come down to the price of the device.
@retro_player_22 Also remember that there have been several products that did not meet their crowdfunding goals that still moved on to be finished products. My guess is, just as Atari said, they are just doing this to limit risks as much as possible. Raise some capital up front, and as long as they don't drastically miss their targets, my guess is they will move this to a finial product regardless. Could be wrong of course, but that's my guess.
Re: Flash Carts Could Be Slowly Killing Your Retro Consoles
@Henmii Sorry, I'm not entirely certain what you are referring to? We were talking about Nintendo licensing their games for use by end users, but it sounds like you may be referring to unlicensed software/peripherals? If so, regardless of how we feel about unlicensed products, that doesn't really change anything as far as ROMs, emulation, and archival backups go.
Re: Flash Carts Could Be Slowly Killing Your Retro Consoles
@Kalmaro What do you expect Nintendo to say? Of course they are going to tell you that you can't do it, that don't want you to make any copy of their software. Again, it doesn't matter what they want. Again, do some research on your own - there is nothing in copyright law that prohibits backup copies for personal use. Your argument falls apart unless you are referring specifically to the Wii U/Switch.
We've had good conversation at first, but now you're just being lazy, incompetent, and stubborn. I've provided you with links to Nintendo's EULA's. Other's have provided you with links to Copyright law section 117, which explicitly permits archival copies.
Heck, I'll do you one better - Here's the legal case between Nintendo and Galoob (Game Genie Maker) over whether or not the game genie modification/adaptation was legal. The Legal case was ruled in Galoob's favor, with section 117 being the ruling used to justify Galoob's action - the exact same section that permits archival backups. What more do you want? Again, stop being lazy, do your own research, and quit spouting nonsense. I have no problems if you disagree with me, but at least use sound logic and reasoning, rather than making outrageous assumptions and trying to use documents out of context.
http://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1545&context=ggulrev
Re: Flash Carts Could Be Slowly Killing Your Retro Consoles
@Kalmaro Your argument is not even remotely close to standing - you've cited a EULA that did not exist until 20+ years later. It has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to this conversation. They do not "Have that on all of their stuff" as you would have seen if you followed my link and read for yourself. It first showed up in the Wii U EULA. If we were talking about taking dumps of Nintendo Switch carts, maybe you would have a leg to stand on, but you don't. Go ahead and show me a single example of a SNES game that contained a EULA, let alone prohibited archival copies. Or N64. Heck, Gamecube even. I'll wait.
Re: Flash Carts Could Be Slowly Killing Your Retro Consoles
@Kalmaro First, it doesn't matter what Nintendo makes clear. Their word isn't law. The most they can do it put it in the EULA. Guess what revision of their EULA Nintendo added the comment of "Licensed not Sold" to? I'll help you - it was the Wii U. And rather than linking to some un-reputable third party site that doesn't even specify what system or software the EULA applies do, let me help you out: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp?menu=wii&submenu=rvl-doc-eula
You're welcome. So the Switch and Wii U software is licensed. Big deal. Even that may or may not prevent you from being able to make legal copies, as again, local laws may trump that. Regardless, it is completely irrelevant, as the Wii U and Switch EULA have absolutely nothing to do with the consoles we are talking about.