Sony honestly just did everything right that generation. In hindsight, even though I ultimately went with the N64 at the time--and I don't regret that--the PlayStation really did deserve the win imo.
It's kind of amazing that we were even at this stage of VR back in the '90s, and then had to wait so long to get to where we are at today.
Still, it's great now, and it's just going to get better. I think this time VR is finally here to stay and likely become the new pillar and/or next big paradigm shift of gaming and entertainment.
PS. I think a few more screenshots of the actual VR games from that time would have just been cool to see and gone a long ways in this article.
I've never been a huge fan of these into the screen shumps to be honest, with really only the original Star Fox being an exception for whatever reasons, but this looks pretty sweet for what it.
I certainly wouldn't have complained if this had come to VR. Shame it didn't. Maybe it could still be released today for the likes of the Quest 3 VR headset. I would not complain about that either.
No one considers this some important discovery other than a handful of people desperate to find something to grasp onto to try and claim a perceived belated "victory" in some console war 30+ years after the fact.
If I had to choose which of the two versions to play, it would be the SNES version every single time. It looks noticeably better, sounds orders of magnitude better, and plays absolutely brilliantly with exactly what is there (and without having to purchase any additional controllers just to play it properly).
I never even knew about these particular chain combos until recent times where they were brought up for no other reason than someone wanting to claim victory in some SNES vs Genesis YouTube video that I happened across by chance. That's how important they are to what makes Street Fighter II so brilliant. This is not some "key" feature in the slightest, and not having them is about as meaningful as the fact they were removed from later games in the series, as the literally multiple millions of fully satisfied SNES Street Fighter II fans can full-well attest to.
And I really don't know how complex these particular chain combos can get in the arcade original, but I can tell you for a fact that I can easily chain three hit combos together in the SNES' version in such a way that the opponent cannot counter until they are done, one being a hard air kick into a soft punch into a shoryuken (as I recall), so it definitely has some form of chain combo moves. Much like this video well demonstrates:
So, I'm not sure if this article is once again being slightly vague and somewhat leading intentionally or if the writer just isn't aware there's more to this point than basically saying one version has chain combos and the other not. I'd put money on the former to be blunt.
You've been pushing a lot of these basically "Genesis Does" articles recently, while trying "real hard" not to overtly come across as biased towards the system you have openly disclosed you prefer, and something is starting to stink here.
Let's leave any fanboyism for YouTube videos, forums, blog posts, and various reader comments, rather than have our "professional" writers also fall victim to it in modern times too.
This "news" piece is a:
PS. And, regarding this whole tale coming from some people above about preferring the Genesis version because the 6-button controller was/is better for Street Fighter II; you're telling me you actually believe the Genesis 6-button controller was/is better than this also-pay-extra-for-it SNES controller for playing Street Fighter II:
If the conceit is that you actually had/have to purchase a new controller or two to play the game in the best possible way, or even properly at all in some cases, the point is settled: 1. SNES had/has by far the best controller for Street Fighter II that every owner got free in the box as standard. 2. And SNES also had/has the best pay-extra-for-it controller for Street Fighter II as well.
If which version is best comes down to controllers alone--which it really doesn't--SNES wins.
Final point: When compared against the SNES, the Genesis has a faster CPU, a higher standard horizontal resolution, access to more VRAM for sprite tiles, etc. These are real advantages in their respective areas. Some of this other thinly-veiled console wars stuff that's come up recently, including this article and quite a few other articles on this site now, is just desperate clutching at straws.
Are some specific Genesis fans really THAT bitter and frustrated, even after all this time?
Yeah, I remember that first issue of Edge. Pretty iconic. I actually had most of the first 100 issues or so, but I sold them for way less than they were worth at some point. Only slightly regret it.
Gunstar Heroes: A clear technical marvel in so many ways, but a game that I don't enjoy playing quite as much as marvelling at for what it's doing graphically and how much it's throwing around on-screen most of the time. Maybe Edge noticed and felt similarly when it first scored the game. Although, having said that, even then I'd give it more than a 6/10, maybe say a 7/10 or 8/10 at a push, just for the sheer technical achievement alone. It's by no means close to average though, that's for sure.
Cool enough. But, what I'd really love to see it someone hack a two player split-screen mode into the original SNES F-Zero game, and without using any enhancement chips either. Using FastROM would be totally fine and dandy though, as that's just 100% stock SNES. Now THAT would be frikin' cool to see. And, even though I already consider F-Zero the best racing game of the 16-bit era, I think that would just push it over the edge of greatness. Let's see that happen.
I don't want to be a downer here, but I don't think this mobile Amico app will really make any kind of dent. But, you never know in mobile land, and maybe I will be wrong.
Probably could have made the stick and buttons just a bit bigger than true scale to make it more practical to actually use, but this is still a sexy little thing.
Awesome series back the in the day. Great music that basically set a precedent for the industry and really made playing WipEout something special and unique for its time. Classic stuff. Hope you sell a bunch of copies.
Not seeing much that takes advantage of the GBA in that version, but cool that it's getting a new indie/homebrew game to add to its already pretty great library of titles.
Now, be respectful to the lone developer of this game and look beyond the indie/homebrew roots, and just imagine if his level of programming expertise on SNES was combined with the level of design and artistry that the Treasure guys had access to . . .
Yeah, the SNES really is not being given full credit regarding some of its capabilities among a growing group of people these days imo.
@UK_Kev
A growing number of people these days often bring up the SNES' "slow" CPU and quote the raw 3.58 MHz number there and point out how it's much less than the Genesis' 7.68 MHz. This is obviously self-evident on paper as purely a data point. But, just to demonstrate something that I expect is known by most people in here already, that a raw number is never the full picture in computing and graphics, here's the SNES running in SlowROM:
Tip: Watch until you at least get to the first shmup section.
Again, that's with the SNES' CPU running in SlowROM at 2.68 MHz, which is a whopping 70% slower than the Genesis' CPU and 30% slower than even the Master System's CPU there.
I'm not going to patronize anyone in the comments by assuming I have to actually explain what is also self-evident here.
@SegaAges What if's indeed.
I mean, if Nintendo had saw fit to actually include the faster CPU they were originally intending to include in SNES (they were even discussing including the FX chip in at least the American model of the SNES at launch), and let the SNES display in both 256x224 and 320x224 modes, plus kept the NES backwards compatibility they once had planned too, I don't think we'd even be having any genuinely serious conversation whatsoever about which system was better in 2023.
Similarly, if Sega had designed the Genesis to display even just as many colours as the PC Engine that came out a year before it, an extra background layer or two, maybe a wee bit of multi-coloured transparency, its own version of Mode 7, Dolby Surround sound support, a standard controller with 6 action buttons setup in a way that offered lots of versatility in control, etc, I think it would have easily taken the technical win from SNES at the very least.
But they didn't, and both systems actually have their own meaningful strengths and weaknesses compared to the other. So, we have what we have, and I think the goal should be to do the absolute best that each system is capable of. Now, I can't say what the Genesis has left in its tank, especially given some of the awesome stuff we've seen for it in modern times that looks to have already squeezed the most out of it in every area to my eyes and ears, but I know for sure the SNES still has a lot more left to give in many areas, as quite a few of its background modes still remain largely underused and in some cases almost completely untouched to this day.
Either way, it will be interesting to see what the development community can deliver on both these consoles in the years to come.
@madsonweb Sort of true regarding the colour math, although not quite conveying the full picture there imo. But, when it can achieve results like in the video below (and I think even more in the right hands), I don't think obsessing over the technicalities really matters to most gamers just enjoying the games and seeing the cool visual effects on-screen:
Bonus: The final boss battle after that level is also pretty dang impressive too imo, and a nice use of Mode 7 for smooth rotation and scaling of the boss' head and the huge version of him at the end, some sprites to create the illusion of background elements behind the boss and for his multi-jointed neck too, some background mode switching for the HUD and floor, and a bit of colour math for the general lighting and the laser beam dynamically affecting the room lighting as well.
I don't think people just commenting on the articles necessarily need to be held to such a standard, but it would be great if the articles were as transparent as they can be with any of the details that might be relevant in such cases. I know the guys writing them must be very professional and passionate about retro gaming, and I expect they would want everyone to know that what they are posting about is not unintentionally obfuscating or misleading in some way, so hopefully they can include that kind of stuff in the future, just to give everyone a full context.
Either way though, still cool examples of system-pushing fighting games there.
Rather than being passionate about trying to prove the Genesis can be a lesser SNES, they should have been passionate about making a game that actually played to the Genesis' strengths and was just great in its own right. But the actual technical achievement itself is commendable enough for what it is, so you feel free to praise them for that if you like.
The great use of colour there and the solid shooting action could convince some people this was an early 16-bit game I expect, or at least maybe something released in the first days of PC Engine. At least in my opinion. The audio obviously gives away the truth though.
No offense to the developer, but it's clear they chose this effect for no other reason than to try and say "See, Genesis can do it too"--the wording in their tweet certainly comes across like that to me--which is kind of sad to see.
The console war was decades ago, and rather than focussing all your talent and energy on trying to show the Genesis basically being a worse version of the SNES, you should have tried to show it being the best version of Genesis.
There's so many things the Genesis is great at, some things it can even do better than SNES, but this really is not a case of Genesis Does.
If you were wanting to make a great racing game for Genesis, I really don't think you would bother with some lesser Mode 7 effect the system isn't ideally suited to. And if you were looking to do some great Mode 7 effect, you should have made this game for SNES, where it could have looked and moved a whole lot better using actual Mode 7.
I think this is a case of getting obsessed with some technical specs and details on paper, copying some graphical gimmick and effect the other console does better to try and prove some point, and forgetting the actual point imo.
Let's love the Genesis for what it is rather than trying to prove it's basically just a slightly inferior mimic of the SNES.
The Genesis is so much better than just a SNES groupie.
You know, I played his Polybius VR game and found it a pretty cool and trippy experience, quite good at making you feel like you were in the zone, but it ultimately felt a bit meaningless and without purpose at the same time. Not sure what he would have needed to change to make it feel more like I was actually doing something that I knew what it was and why and what the end goal of it was so I'd feel like play was a worthwhile and rewarding investment of my time, but I think it just needed that extra element to be pretty special. Cool for what it was though.
I agree with the "I don’t think the quality of the graphics determines how fun a game is" assertion.
This is why, despite so much focus on doing as much technical stuff as possible with the Genesis' graphics capabilities, I've never personally found the likes of Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier and Dynamite Headdy more fun than say Contra III on SNES for example.
I think even Treasure sometimes got so caught up on pushing as much visuals and effects and sprites and explosions on screen as possible that at times it feels as if you're just going through the motions with a bit of sensory overload rather than truly taking in each moment and fully enjoying actually playing the games. The boss run design of Alien Soldier also is especially unsatisfying and kinda shallow for me personally. I wish that game had actual full levels between the boss fights too, and then I know I would almost certainly enjoy it a lot more.
But, don't get me wrong, they're still top tier 16-bit action games and great fun regardless, but not quite as much fun as some other efforts that weren't so obsessed with being graphics showcases over all imo.
Still, would I have taken them making more games for SNES that pushed it to its limits too--hell yes.
Interestingly, for me at least, I actually like playing Guardian Heroes more than those previously mentioned hardware-maxing games, which, really, for its times was far less about cutting edge graphics--it would have just been all 3D polygons if it were--and more about doing some really cool stuff with what was ostensibly just lovely last-gen 2D visuals. And that worked imo.
Ultimately though, I have to say that Treasure is still one of the best developers of the 16-bit era and a little beyond.
Never actually played the original, but I loved the second game. It's one of only a few games that got me so hooked I basically spent a whole day playing in at least one session where I never stopped for anything other than toilet and quick snack breaks. Good times.
I think it was Dungeon Keeper 2 (PC), Theme Park (Genesis version), Mother 3 (GBA), and Warlocked (GBC) are the only other ones.
Edit: I've researched how this could be done on SNES for some time now, and I think it could manage basically everything seen in Shinobi III plus have the HUD properly overlaid throughout, have more colours throughout too, show proper transparency effects in the places where the Genesis version currently uses dithering for faux transparency, go for a more authentic Eastern soundscape using real samples, and map the controls better to its gamepad too (could use the shoulder buttons to quickly cycle Ninjutsu types without having to go into the Pause menu for example).
I didn't even know there was a game based on this awesome cartoon.
I wish the recent VR Ghostbusters game had actually been based on the classic cartoon rather than what we got.
Also, I would have loved a SNES Ghostbusters game something like this arcade, where it used the proper multi-coloured semi-transparency capabilities of the SNES to really make the ghosts look great. Also, with its brilliant controller, moving in any of eight directions while simultaneously shooting in any of eight directions would have been great for this kind of game on SNES too. What could have been. . . .
I'm pretty sure there's plenty of developers who could say the same about SNES if the goal is to only pick one thing that's particularly suited to one system and focus on only that way of achieving a result to demonstrate some kind of superiority.
Regardless, SNES can still more than handle multi-jointed enemies [on stock hardware too]:
And this indie game example certainly looks like the many multi-jointed bosses are being affected in real-time when kicked, or convincely enough that who truly cares if it's not actual real-time (they also appear to use proper sprite rotation at the same time too):
You just have to approach multi-jointed enemies on SNES slightly differently to how you would do them on Genesis. Just like you have to use different approaches to get more than 64 colours on-screen, have more than two backgrounds, display up to 128 sprites on-screen, show some form of transparency, have some version of background scaling and rotation, use something akin to Dolby Surround sound, control a character with 8-way movement plus 8-way shooting at the same time, etc, on Genesis.
And, if it comes down to measuring and quantifying in some form which of those things adds up to making one system "better" than the other, as in providing the best, the most impressive, and most satisfying gaming experience when all is said and done, well, like you said, around fifteen million more gamers ultimately picked the SNES over the Genesis (if we include the Brazilian Genesis models and the bargain bin $50 Genesis 3 in the total Genesis sold figure), developers created more than twice the amount of game for the SNES, and more SNES games still appear on most Best Games of All Time lists to this day. Is that [plus all the stuff SNES is stronger at] the measure of "better", or is it which system is more suited to doing real-time multi-jointed enemies [plus the other stuff Genesis is stronger at], or maybe even something else?
But, yes, Genesis is more suited to doing some specific things than SNES, and visa versa.
Awesome. Off to a good start. Looking forward to seeing more.
Two notes:
1. PVSnesLib needs a better name imo, something much more obvious and catchy, like SNESBuilder or whatever.
2. Seems like PVSnesLib is coming along, and hopefully it gets more and more user friendly going forward. Personally speaking, even just getting it setup is a total nightmare if you're not some PC-centric coder-minded type, to the point I just gave up after a few tries. So that first step right there could do with a lot of streamlining and simplifying in my opinion, because it's literally the first thing you need to do to even use it to begin working on SNES projects, and if it's so convoluted and intimidating that it puts a bunch of potential future SNES developers off day one, it's not an ideal start.
I'll just refer to my comment #44 again, so hopefully you address the point I raised there in the couple of years you have before the SNES' 35th birthday.
And, as I've said before too, there's lots of genuinely great games on the Genesis list, but some that just aren't good enough to warrant inclusion on a list called Best Sega Genesis/Mega Drive games of all Time imo--unless you're maybe making a Top 50 or Top 100 list. Still, opinions and all . . .
Ooh, some people are going to be very excited about this.
But, it looks like they have made it basically impossible to play games like GoldenEye with two controllers at once with their gamepad design, which is a unnecessary loss imo. It doesn't even look particularly well laid out for playing Doom classic style either with the award position of the d-pad near the bottom center-left of the controller.
Looks maybe a little bit stiff and sluggish--although, given the original game, it's likely still a huge step up--but otherwise looks very cool for what it is.
This FPGA solution is honestly the approach that I think a company like Nintendo should use for say a SNES Classic Mini 2. And they should also make it have a working cartridge slot so third parties can sell more compilation carts and re-releases of physical SNES games and such for it going forward too. Plus, maybe they could even secure an inclusion of the apparently 99% complete but never released Killer Instinct 2 for SNES as the additional +1 game. I think that package would be a surefire winner and sell multiple millions of units if priced correctly.
@KGRAMR Totally agree on that last part. In fact, I just don't get why all these genius programmers in the SNES development community have never come together and built a proper fully fleshed out SNES SDK that would actually make all their lives much easier. I mean, there's something like PVSnesLib, but that's just not at the level of polish and intuitiveness that this kind of thing is going to need if it's ever going to be more than a niche tool for mostly hardcore nerds yanking their own chains and little else--not that it's impossible to create proper indie/homebrew games on it if you are one of those hardcore low-level Assembly programmer types. Has the Genesis development scene not already convinced the SNES development community that a proper SNES SDK would be more than worth the effort, especially given the fact that SNES is simply a more popular system to the tune of millions of fans and users, which was true back in the day and is actually even more so today, and therefore would almost certainly garner greater sales if it were in a similar position in terms of the level of brand new indie/homebrew support. What exactly are they waiting for?
Comments 831
Re: Flashback: Reliving The Drama Of E3 1995, When Sega Took On Sony And Lost
Sony honestly just did everything right that generation. In hindsight, even though I ultimately went with the N64 at the time--and I don't regret that--the PlayStation really did deserve the win imo.
Re: Flashback: How An American Businessman Tried To Turn Akira Into A Blockbuster Game
I definitely would have loved to have seen a finished SNES version of this back in the day. Could have been very cool.
Re: I've Just Resurrected This Zelda Scratch Card Game From 1989
Well, this seems like a pretty interesting project.
Re: The Making Of: Virtuality, The 1990s Pioneer That Sold The World On VR
It's kind of amazing that we were even at this stage of VR back in the '90s, and then had to wait so long to get to where we are at today.
Still, it's great now, and it's just going to get better. I think this time VR is finally here to stay and likely become the new pillar and/or next big paradigm shift of gaming and entertainment.
PS. I think a few more screenshots of the actual VR games from that time would have just been cool to see and gone a long ways in this article.
Re: A Demo For Terarin's 'Missile Dancer 2' Is Now Available On Steam
I've never been a huge fan of these into the screen shumps to be honest, with really only the original Star Fox being an exception for whatever reasons, but this looks pretty sweet for what it.
Re: Best Sega Dreamcast Games Of All Time
There are some good games there, but I've just never been a huge fan of this particular system.
Re: Geoff Crammond's 'The Sentinel' Was Nearly Turned Into A VR Game
I certainly wouldn't have complained if this had come to VR. Shame it didn't. Maybe it could still be released today for the likes of the Quest 3 VR headset. I would not complain about that either.
Re: Kid Icarus Is The Latest Game To Get A Fanmade NES To SNES Port
Nice. Another one to add to the growing list.
Re: Did You Know SNES Street Fighter II Is Missing A Key Feature Of The Arcade Original?
click . . . bait.
Well, it worked. So, here goes my two cents:
No one considers this some important discovery other than a handful of people desperate to find something to grasp onto to try and claim a perceived belated "victory" in some console war 30+ years after the fact.
If I had to choose which of the two versions to play, it would be the SNES version every single time. It looks noticeably better, sounds orders of magnitude better, and plays absolutely brilliantly with exactly what is there (and without having to purchase any additional controllers just to play it properly).
I never even knew about these particular chain combos until recent times where they were brought up for no other reason than someone wanting to claim victory in some SNES vs Genesis YouTube video that I happened across by chance. That's how important they are to what makes Street Fighter II so brilliant. This is not some "key" feature in the slightest, and not having them is about as meaningful as the fact they were removed from later games in the series, as the literally multiple millions of fully satisfied SNES Street Fighter II fans can full-well attest to.
And I really don't know how complex these particular chain combos can get in the arcade original, but I can tell you for a fact that I can easily chain three hit combos together in the SNES' version in such a way that the opponent cannot counter until they are done, one being a hard air kick into a soft punch into a shoryuken (as I recall), so it definitely has some form of chain combo moves. Much like this video well demonstrates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZNElxnFQk0
So, I'm not sure if this article is once again being slightly vague and somewhat leading intentionally or if the writer just isn't aware there's more to this point than basically saying one version has chain combos and the other not. I'd put money on the former to be blunt.
You've been pushing a lot of these basically "Genesis Does" articles recently, while trying "real hard" not to overtly come across as biased towards the system you have openly disclosed you prefer, and something is starting to stink here.
Let's leave any fanboyism for YouTube videos, forums, blog posts, and various reader comments, rather than have our "professional" writers also fall victim to it in modern times too.
This "news" piece is a:
PS. And, regarding this whole tale coming from some people above about preferring the Genesis version because the 6-button controller was/is better for Street Fighter II; you're telling me you actually believe the Genesis 6-button controller was/is better than this also-pay-extra-for-it SNES controller for playing Street Fighter II:
https://youtu.be/QRUMzw70Lvg?si=zWzrjjGMjA_-cc2w
If the conceit is that you actually had/have to purchase a new controller or two to play the game in the best possible way, or even properly at all in some cases, the point is settled: 1. SNES had/has by far the best controller for Street Fighter II that every owner got free in the box as standard. 2. And SNES also had/has the best pay-extra-for-it controller for Street Fighter II as well.
If which version is best comes down to controllers alone--which it really doesn't--SNES wins.
Final point: When compared against the SNES, the Genesis has a faster CPU, a higher standard horizontal resolution, access to more VRAM for sprite tiles, etc. These are real advantages in their respective areas. Some of this other thinly-veiled console wars stuff that's come up recently, including this article and quite a few other articles on this site now, is just desperate clutching at straws.
Are some specific Genesis fans really THAT bitter and frustrated, even after all this time?
Re: Iconic Issues: EDGE #1, October 1993
Yeah, I remember that first issue of Edge. Pretty iconic. I actually had most of the first 100 issues or so, but I sold them for way less than they were worth at some point. Only slightly regret it.
Gunstar Heroes: A clear technical marvel in so many ways, but a game that I don't enjoy playing quite as much as marvelling at for what it's doing graphically and how much it's throwing around on-screen most of the time. Maybe Edge noticed and felt similarly when it first scored the game. Although, having said that, even then I'd give it more than a 6/10, maybe say a 7/10 or 8/10 at a push, just for the sheer technical achievement alone. It's by no means close to average though, that's for sure.
Re: New F-Zero ROM Hack Brings Maximum Velocity Tracks To SNES Original
Cool enough. But, what I'd really love to see it someone hack a two player split-screen mode into the original SNES F-Zero game, and without using any enhancement chips either. Using FastROM would be totally fine and dandy though, as that's just 100% stock SNES. Now THAT would be frikin' cool to see. And, even though I already consider F-Zero the best racing game of the 16-bit era, I think that would just push it over the edge of greatness. Let's see that happen.
Re: Random: This Virtua Fighter Robot Is Ridiculously Cool
Brilliant and hilarious.
Re: Intellivision Admits It Doesn't Have The Funds To Make The Console
I don't want to be a downer here, but I don't think this mobile Amico app will really make any kind of dent. But, you never know in mobile land, and maybe I will be wrong.
Re: Space Invaders Creator Gets To Grips With 1/4 Scale 'Quarter Arcades' Cab
Probably could have made the stick and buttons just a bit bigger than true scale to make it more practical to actually use, but this is still a sexy little thing.
Re: CoLD SToRAGE Releasing Remastered Album Of His Classic WipEout Music On CD & Vinyl
Awesome series back the in the day. Great music that basically set a precedent for the industry and really made playing WipEout something special and unique for its time. Classic stuff. Hope you sell a bunch of copies.
Re: Tiny Magic Is A Charming New Puzzle Adventure Game Coming To The MSX2
Never paid much attention to this platform, but the game looks decent enough.
Re: The Octopus Aims To Be The Only Fight Stick You'll Ever Need
Looks pretty cool for what it is.
Re: The NES Homebrew 'The Meating' Is Heading To The Game Boy Advance
Not seeing much that takes advantage of the GBA in that version, but cool that it's getting a new indie/homebrew game to add to its already pretty great library of titles.
Re: Gunstar Heroes Developer Treasure On Why Mega Drive Is Better Than SNES
By the way, just to add one more example of a multi-jointed boss on SNES (and I think this game uses actual sprite rotation too):
https://youtu.be/VFGf-4nulEU?si=8jcBeHzP8RxjO8Pi&t=18
Now, be respectful to the lone developer of this game and look beyond the indie/homebrew roots, and just imagine if his level of programming expertise on SNES was combined with the level of design and artistry that the Treasure guys had access to . . .
Yeah, the SNES really is not being given full credit regarding some of its capabilities among a growing group of people these days imo.
@UK_Kev
A growing number of people these days often bring up the SNES' "slow" CPU and quote the raw 3.58 MHz number there and point out how it's much less than the Genesis' 7.68 MHz. This is obviously self-evident on paper as purely a data point. But, just to demonstrate something that I expect is known by most people in here already, that a raw number is never the full picture in computing and graphics, here's the SNES running in SlowROM:
https://youtu.be/Tl7D25I6yDc?si=jDbqdzc1SDZewA3I
Tip: Watch until you at least get to the first shmup section.
Again, that's with the SNES' CPU running in SlowROM at 2.68 MHz, which is a whopping 70% slower than the Genesis' CPU and 30% slower than even the Master System's CPU there.
I'm not going to patronize anyone in the comments by assuming I have to actually explain what is also self-evident here.
@SegaAges What if's indeed.
I mean, if Nintendo had saw fit to actually include the faster CPU they were originally intending to include in SNES (they were even discussing including the FX chip in at least the American model of the SNES at launch), and let the SNES display in both 256x224 and 320x224 modes, plus kept the NES backwards compatibility they once had planned too, I don't think we'd even be having any genuinely serious conversation whatsoever about which system was better in 2023.
Similarly, if Sega had designed the Genesis to display even just as many colours as the PC Engine that came out a year before it, an extra background layer or two, maybe a wee bit of multi-coloured transparency, its own version of Mode 7, Dolby Surround sound support, a standard controller with 6 action buttons setup in a way that offered lots of versatility in control, etc, I think it would have easily taken the technical win from SNES at the very least.
But they didn't, and both systems actually have their own meaningful strengths and weaknesses compared to the other. So, we have what we have, and I think the goal should be to do the absolute best that each system is capable of. Now, I can't say what the Genesis has left in its tank, especially given some of the awesome stuff we've seen for it in modern times that looks to have already squeezed the most out of it in every area to my eyes and ears, but I know for sure the SNES still has a lot more left to give in many areas, as quite a few of its background modes still remain largely underused and in some cases almost completely untouched to this day.
Either way, it will be interesting to see what the development community can deliver on both these consoles in the years to come.
@madsonweb Sort of true regarding the colour math, although not quite conveying the full picture there imo. But, when it can achieve results like in the video below (and I think even more in the right hands), I don't think obsessing over the technicalities really matters to most gamers just enjoying the games and seeing the cool visual effects on-screen:
https://youtu.be/Be_1H56Pl4o?si=WKFUkDyRt88zC4lG&t=6526
Bonus: The final boss battle after that level is also pretty dang impressive too imo, and a nice use of Mode 7 for smooth rotation and scaling of the boss' head and the huge version of him at the end, some sprites to create the illusion of background elements behind the boss and for his multi-jointed neck too, some background mode switching for the HUD and floor, and a bit of colour math for the general lighting and the laser beam dynamically affecting the room lighting as well.
Re: Footage Of Marvel Super Heroes Running On Sega Genesis Raises Eyebrows
@BobaTheFett Yes, I basically agree with you.
I don't think people just commenting on the articles necessarily need to be held to such a standard, but it would be great if the articles were as transparent as they can be with any of the details that might be relevant in such cases. I know the guys writing them must be very professional and passionate about retro gaming, and I expect they would want everyone to know that what they are posting about is not unintentionally obfuscating or misleading in some way, so hopefully they can include that kind of stuff in the future, just to give everyone a full context.
Either way though, still cool examples of system-pushing fighting games there.
Re: Gears Of Rage Brings "Mode 7-Like" Scaling To Sega Genesis / Mega Drive
@_NetNomad I'm just calling a spade a spade.
Rather than being passionate about trying to prove the Genesis can be a lesser SNES, they should have been passionate about making a game that actually played to the Genesis' strengths and was just great in its own right. But the actual technical achievement itself is commendable enough for what it is, so you feel free to praise them for that if you like.
And that's all I'm saying on it.
Re: Zanac, Aleste And Gunhed Devs Join Forces For NES Shmup 'Chouyoku Senki Estique'
This looks very cool for a NES shmup.
The great use of colour there and the solid shooting action could convince some people this was an early 16-bit game I expect, or at least maybe something released in the first days of PC Engine. At least in my opinion. The audio obviously gives away the truth though.
Very nice.
Re: Gears Of Rage Brings "Mode 7-Like" Scaling To Sega Genesis / Mega Drive
No offense to the developer, but it's clear they chose this effect for no other reason than to try and say "See, Genesis can do it too"--the wording in their tweet certainly comes across like that to me--which is kind of sad to see.
The console war was decades ago, and rather than focussing all your talent and energy on trying to show the Genesis basically being a worse version of the SNES, you should have tried to show it being the best version of Genesis.
There's so many things the Genesis is great at, some things it can even do better than SNES, but this really is not a case of Genesis Does.
If you were wanting to make a great racing game for Genesis, I really don't think you would bother with some lesser Mode 7 effect the system isn't ideally suited to. And if you were looking to do some great Mode 7 effect, you should have made this game for SNES, where it could have looked and moved a whole lot better using actual Mode 7.
I think this is a case of getting obsessed with some technical specs and details on paper, copying some graphical gimmick and effect the other console does better to try and prove some point, and forgetting the actual point imo.
Let's love the Genesis for what it is rather than trying to prove it's basically just a slightly inferior mimic of the SNES.
The Genesis is so much better than just a SNES groupie.
Re: Molyneux And Minter - The Story Of The Lost GameCube Exclusive 'Unity'
You know, I played his Polybius VR game and found it a pretty cool and trippy experience, quite good at making you feel like you were in the zone, but it ultimately felt a bit meaningless and without purpose at the same time. Not sure what he would have needed to change to make it feel more like I was actually doing something that I knew what it was and why and what the end goal of it was so I'd feel like play was a worthwhile and rewarding investment of my time, but I think it just needed that extra element to be pretty special. Cool for what it was though.
Re: Treasure's Masato Maegawa Talks Game Design In Newly-Translated 1995 Interview
I agree with the "I don’t think the quality of the graphics determines how fun a game is" assertion.
This is why, despite so much focus on doing as much technical stuff as possible with the Genesis' graphics capabilities, I've never personally found the likes of Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier and Dynamite Headdy more fun than say Contra III on SNES for example.
I think even Treasure sometimes got so caught up on pushing as much visuals and effects and sprites and explosions on screen as possible that at times it feels as if you're just going through the motions with a bit of sensory overload rather than truly taking in each moment and fully enjoying actually playing the games. The boss run design of Alien Soldier also is especially unsatisfying and kinda shallow for me personally. I wish that game had actual full levels between the boss fights too, and then I know I would almost certainly enjoy it a lot more.
But, don't get me wrong, they're still top tier 16-bit action games and great fun regardless, but not quite as much fun as some other efforts that weren't so obsessed with being graphics showcases over all imo.
Still, would I have taken them making more games for SNES that pushed it to its limits too--hell yes.
Interestingly, for me at least, I actually like playing Guardian Heroes more than those previously mentioned hardware-maxing games, which, really, for its times was far less about cutting edge graphics--it would have just been all 3D polygons if it were--and more about doing some really cool stuff with what was ostensibly just lovely last-gen 2D visuals. And that worked imo.
Ultimately though, I have to say that Treasure is still one of the best developers of the 16-bit era and a little beyond.
Re: After 15 Years, The Dungeon Keeper Fan Remake 'KeeperFX' Has Hit 1.0
Never actually played the original, but I loved the second game. It's one of only a few games that got me so hooked I basically spent a whole day playing in at least one session where I never stopped for anything other than toilet and quick snack breaks. Good times.
I think it was Dungeon Keeper 2 (PC), Theme Park (Genesis version), Mother 3 (GBA), and Warlocked (GBC) are the only other ones.
Re: Gallery: Unboxing The Atari 2600+
So, is it basically a re-release of the original system that plays the original cartridges and all, but now with a few QoL improvements?
If so, that's exactly the kind of thing I love to see Nintendo do for the original SNES too, and even the NES as well.
Re: Dev Shares Footage Of Unreleased 'The Incredible Crash Dummies' Game For SNES
Well, this one I'm not particularly upset about missing. Still, interesting to see.
Re: Random: Remember When Pokémon Wanted To "Spit-Roast Your Best Friend"?
Oh I'm pretty sure they were fully aware. LOL
Re: Footage Of Marvel Super Heroes Running On Sega Genesis Raises Eyebrows
Very impressive!
It's similar to this on SNES:
https://x.com/MaxwelOlinda1/status/1689399746438340608?s=20
Amazing what you can do on these consoles when pushed.
Re: Mega Drive Fan Game 'Metroid Mega Mission' Rebranding To Original Project
@Hexapus That I would love to see.
Edit: I've researched how this could be done on SNES for some time now, and I think it could manage basically everything seen in Shinobi III plus have the HUD properly overlaid throughout, have more colours throughout too, show proper transparency effects in the places where the Genesis version currently uses dithering for faux transparency, go for a more authentic Eastern soundscape using real samples, and map the controls better to its gamepad too (could use the shoulder buttons to quickly cycle Ninjutsu types without having to go into the Pause menu for example).
Re: 'Star Fox EX Exploration Showcase' Dev Just Released A Star Fox Randomizer
Another welcome addition.
Re: Quarter Arcades Adds 'The Real Ghostbusters' To Its Range
I didn't even know there was a game based on this awesome cartoon.
I wish the recent VR Ghostbusters game had actually been based on the classic cartoon rather than what we got.
Also, I would have loved a SNES Ghostbusters game something like this arcade, where it used the proper multi-coloured semi-transparency capabilities of the SNES to really make the ghosts look great. Also, with its brilliant controller, moving in any of eight directions while simultaneously shooting in any of eight directions would have been great for this kind of game on SNES too. What could have been. . . .
Re: Gunstar Heroes Developer Treasure On Why Mega Drive Is Better Than SNES
"Why Mega Drive Is Better Than SNES"
I'm pretty sure there's plenty of developers who could say the same about SNES if the goal is to only pick one thing that's particularly suited to one system and focus on only that way of achieving a result to demonstrate some kind of superiority.
Regardless, SNES can still more than handle multi-jointed enemies [on stock hardware too]:
https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2023/01/02/multi-jointed-enemies-in-snes-games/
Here's one specific example taken from all the examples in the link above:
https://youtu.be/VBZfkiuMLe0?si=xFAo2xbWgE2GnGxG&t=127
And this indie game example certainly looks like the many multi-jointed bosses are being affected in real-time when kicked, or convincely enough that who truly cares if it's not actual real-time (they also appear to use proper sprite rotation at the same time too):
https://youtu.be/ptunPRaNMZI?si=xqwkm20Tx_KS0NP5&t=111
You just have to approach multi-jointed enemies on SNES slightly differently to how you would do them on Genesis. Just like you have to use different approaches to get more than 64 colours on-screen, have more than two backgrounds, display up to 128 sprites on-screen, show some form of transparency, have some version of background scaling and rotation, use something akin to Dolby Surround sound, control a character with 8-way movement plus 8-way shooting at the same time, etc, on Genesis.
And, if it comes down to measuring and quantifying in some form which of those things adds up to making one system "better" than the other, as in providing the best, the most impressive, and most satisfying gaming experience when all is said and done, well, like you said, around fifteen million more gamers ultimately picked the SNES over the Genesis (if we include the Brazilian Genesis models and the bargain bin $50 Genesis 3 in the total Genesis sold figure), developers created more than twice the amount of game for the SNES, and more SNES games still appear on most Best Games of All Time lists to this day. Is that [plus all the stuff SNES is stronger at] the measure of "better", or is it which system is more suited to doing real-time multi-jointed enemies [plus the other stuff Genesis is stronger at], or maybe even something else?
But, yes, Genesis is more suited to doing some specific things than SNES, and visa versa.
Re: Konami's Arcade Beat 'Em Up 'Asterix' Could Be Getting A Fanmade Port For The SNES
Awesome. Off to a good start. Looking forward to seeing more.
Two notes:
1. PVSnesLib needs a better name imo, something much more obvious and catchy, like SNESBuilder or whatever.
2. Seems like PVSnesLib is coming along, and hopefully it gets more and more user friendly going forward. Personally speaking, even just getting it setup is a total nightmare if you're not some PC-centric coder-minded type, to the point I just gave up after a few tries. So that first step right there could do with a lot of streamlining and simplifying in my opinion, because it's literally the first thing you need to do to even use it to begin working on SNES projects, and if it's so convoluted and intimidating that it puts a bunch of potential future SNES developers off day one, it's not an ideal start.
Just some constructive feedback there.
Re: Sensible Soccer Legend Jon Hare Wants To "Get Even" With EA And "Outlive FIFA"
I kinda support him in his goal there.
Re: Best Sega Genesis / Mega Drive Games Of All Time
I'll just refer to my comment #44 again, so hopefully you address the point I raised there in the couple of years you have before the SNES' 35th birthday.
And, as I've said before too, there's lots of genuinely great games on the Genesis list, but some that just aren't good enough to warrant inclusion on a list called Best Sega Genesis/Mega Drive games of all Time imo--unless you're maybe making a Top 50 or Top 100 list. Still, opinions and all . . .
Re: Neo Geo CD Title 'Punky Circus' Is 'Neo Mr. Do!' Without Mr. Do
I like the look of this.
Re: Anniversary: Super Mario Bros. 3 Is Now 35 Years Old
A classic to be sure. I'm a big fan of the Super Mario All-Stars version.
Re: Neo Geo CD Title 'Battle Flip Shot' Is Now Available To Order
Looks very nice.
Re: Analogue 3D Is An FPGA-Based N64 With 4K Output
Ooh, some people are going to be very excited about this.
But, it looks like they have made it basically impossible to play games like GoldenEye with two controllers at once with their gamepad design, which is a unnecessary loss imo. It doesn't even look particularly well laid out for playing Doom classic style either with the award position of the d-pad near the bottom center-left of the controller.
Re: A Fanmade SNES Port Of Metroid Is Now Available In Beta Form
Keep 'em coming.
In lieu of proper brand new system-pushing games coming to the SNES, I will absolutely take all of this stuff.
The more the merrier.
Re: Unreleased SNES Platformer 'Mr. Tuff' Finally Goes On Sale 28 Years Later
It's another "new" SNES game in modern times, so I'll take it.
Re: Fanmade Tomb Raider 2 Remake Reimagines The Game As A 3D Sidescroller
Looks maybe a little bit stiff and sluggish--although, given the original game, it's likely still a huge step up--but otherwise looks very cool for what it is.
Re: The Making Of: Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem - GameCube's Horror Classic
This game needs to exist in VR.
Seriously, watch the clip of The 7th Guest VR below, and try not to imagine how amazing a VR version of Eternal Darkness done akin that would be:
https://youtu.be/DgFGdDQ-aZs?si=Bie7ZfBziWcLeU--
Re: Could MiSTer Rival MARS FPGA Be The New King Of Retro Gaming?
This FPGA solution is honestly the approach that I think a company like Nintendo should use for say a SNES Classic Mini 2. And they should also make it have a working cartridge slot so third parties can sell more compilation carts and re-releases of physical SNES games and such for it going forward too. Plus, maybe they could even secure an inclusion of the apparently 99% complete but never released Killer Instinct 2 for SNES as the additional +1 game. I think that package would be a surefire winner and sell multiple millions of units if priced correctly.
Re: Assault Suits Valken / Cybernator Is Getting A Physical Reissue On SNES
Nice. It's a great game, so it's well deserved.
Re: Review: RetroSix Super GamePad - The Perfect Replacement For Your Old SNES Controller
The clear transparent one is sexy.
Re: Daemon Claw Is A New Action Sidescroller For Amiga, Mega Drive, Neo Geo, & PC
@KGRAMR Totally agree on that last part. In fact, I just don't get why all these genius programmers in the SNES development community have never come together and built a proper fully fleshed out SNES SDK that would actually make all their lives much easier. I mean, there's something like PVSnesLib, but that's just not at the level of polish and intuitiveness that this kind of thing is going to need if it's ever going to be more than a niche tool for mostly hardcore nerds yanking their own chains and little else--not that it's impossible to create proper indie/homebrew games on it if you are one of those hardcore low-level Assembly programmer types. Has the Genesis development scene not already convinced the SNES development community that a proper SNES SDK would be more than worth the effort, especially given the fact that SNES is simply a more popular system to the tune of millions of fans and users, which was true back in the day and is actually even more so today, and therefore would almost certainly garner greater sales if it were in a similar position in terms of the level of brand new indie/homebrew support. What exactly are they waiting for?
Re: The Making Of: Silent Hill: Shattered Memories - Sam Barlow's Wii Masterpiece
Put this in VR.
Also, someone, put Eternal Darkness in VR.
PS. I loved Shattered Memories on Wii, especially the great use of the Wiimote and such. It's actually my favourite Silent Hill game.